Whats Your Take on This?

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by babj615, Sep 18, 2007.

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  1. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    So, I haven't heard/researched everything about this incident.....

    ...but my understanding is that the student was simply exercising his 1A rights to ask a question [or two].... He was not using foul language or even off topic...

    ...yet....

    WTF?

    If you don't ask the questions they tell you to ask.... this is the outcome????
     
  2. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Here's a couple of takes on it.

    University of Florida alumnus Tony C., writes:
    http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/17/student-tasered-at-john-kerry-forum/
    And here's what Ace of Spades says about the incident:
    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/240906.php

     

  3. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    Somewhat unbalanced spoiled brat who resisted arrest after disrupting a meeting. I give security the benefit of the doubt unless I hear/see something new.
     
  4. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Member

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    I think all college students should be tasered. Repeatedly.
     
  5. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    Gee, thanks Thunderbear. Remind me not to come hang out with you should you ever get your hands on a x26(c) :lol:.
     
  6. Dobry

    Dobry Guest

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    All we have to rely on are the videos... I have no idea what this guy's original question even was.

    But, to the point, I'm sensing from the articles that he's been a pot-stirrer before... pot-stirring's O.K. ... but most pot-stirrers don't get physical with LE, and from what I saw from the 2 videos is that he was getting physically combative with LE. And I repeatedly saw the one LE officer trying to calm him down and calm down the situation...

    Really, my opinion is that it seems to me that this student was purposefully trying to provoke an incident, and kept on trying to provoke, rather than relaxing and calming down... the student reminds me somewhat of an ADHD/challenged child quite frankly, who can't focus, control himself, and calm down... and instead might escalate (albeit uncontrollably) an already tense situation, just my opinion and observation from past experiences.

    And this is not the mark of an experienced professional journalist, which I assume the student thinks he is. I've never seen even Mike Moore go that ballistic, nor so physically escalate a situation. This young man is screaming that they're going to "kill him"??? What??? WTF? I didn't see any indication that LE was trying to harm him, other than get him calmed down before he hurt himself or someone else. He's not acting rationally nor professionally as a journalist.

    I think LE was trying to calm and get an escalating situation under control. I could not spot a taser being used, only the young man's words.

    The right to free speech does not give the right to go physically ballistic, or physically out of control, in my opinion, and you don't see the pros acting out those sorts of antics. That same right also imposes on us the responsibility as the speakers to act peacefully and respectfully. I didn't see this young man acting responsibly, peacefully nor respectfully.
     
  7. BulletBait

    BulletBait New Member

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    Punk was a spoiled brat trying to exercise his "right to be listened too."

    :roll:



    I love the sound of Lib-Tards getting Tasered :lol:
     
  8. ChillyWilly

    ChillyWilly New Member

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    I'm a Lib-tard Democrat and I think they should have hit him with a stick. I doubt highly he was asking an innocent question, he was resisting and he did sound like a moron exclaiming "there going to kill me". They shoulda tazed, then peppered him and then hit him with a stick....being incitful at a Kerry rally he must have been a Republican anyways (just taking pot shots at those who demo libo bash...don't cry it's all in good fun)

    Hell I also believe in military/police/fire spending, no gun control (the severest penalties should be levied on illegal gun runners and persons who use a gun in the commission of a crime-and no more stupid "you shot me while I was trying to rob you" lawsuits), the death penalty ( bring back public executions, hell I think we aught to have an island where we can send all the scumbags and let them have at it with each other) but none of this matters because while we (Repubs and Demos) are wasting time fighting the corporations are bleeding us dry....

    The problem is not Repubs or Demos, we have all lost focus...take a look around

    The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.----FDR

    Just my 2 pesos....not worth much but mine....and I have a gun to back it up (ducks while 50 repubs start shooting back)
     
  9. QPluralisT

    QPluralisT Guest

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    First and foremost, tasers, like firearms, are not toys. Carrying a taser grants one a certain responsibility to act appropriately and be judicious with the use of force. This increases exponentially while wearing a badge and/or representing the authority of the State.

    Even if he's a whiny loser, he has the same rights as the rest of us whiny losers. While the video makes it incredibly difficult to see what is going on, it does bring to mind a few questions. Why can't five or six police officers control one whiny loser?

    The problem with tasers is that they are treated like a non-lethal device. No, I'm not going to jump into taser death statistics, what I'm saying is that police officers should treat tasers like a "less-lethal" device to be used in place of a firearm. Personal politics aside, he didn't need to be shot to be removed from the room, so why was he tasered?

    This is a growing problem, and I'm glad people are taping these so the word gets out.
    -------------------------

    This is not a free speech issue, as much as it is a "use of force" issue. He certainly abused his right to speak in front of John Kerry, I don't think that's even debatable. The question is how many UF rent-a-cops does it take to subdue a whiny loser? From what I can gather, he was pestering John Kerry with a barrage of nut-ball questions and the crowd was getting sick of it. If you notice, the audience cheered as he was initially being removed, John Kerry even answered his question while he was being removed. It wasn't until they tasered them that people stood up for the loser.

    Lets hope he gets enrolled in an Ethics in Journalism course and gets a heavy prescription of Ritalin. What a blight on UF.
     
  10. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Ditto.

    The response of the police to me seemed measured, appropriate, and quite frankly somewhat restrained taking every effort to allow the kid to stand down peacefully. If I sat on a citizen's review board, based on what I've seen, I would recommend the officers in question receive commendations.

    Buzz
     
  11. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    "Wrongful use of a taser", accordin' to me. <shrug> There were plenty of security people to cuff the dude, pick 'im up and physically carry 'im out of the auditorium...kickin' an' screamin' if he liked. He wasn't threatening anyone, just being rudely distractin' to the evening's forum. <shrug> Holdin' 'im down and taserin' 'im in front of a crowd, that was a big mistake, IMHO. :shock: This ain' over, I suspect. <shrug> Far as Kerry goes, whataya expect from a fuckin' politician? Bravery? Friends, them days is long gone given the attributes of successful modern-day politicians. :roll:

    Wulf <-- still laffin' at the dude sayin', "...don't taser me, dude...", briefly slippin' outta character from his "hey-look-at-me" show :lol:
     
  12. Dobry

    Dobry Guest

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    Sure, there were plenty of LE/Security officers... but anyone ever heard of "lawsuit"??

    I'm serious, this guy Meyer seemed to WANT to provoke mayhem, sort of like yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater, in my opinion from the videos. If increased physical force had been used by the officers, the situation could have seriously gotten out of hand... a bunch of riled-up college students could have created a whole lot of mischief.

    Again, seems to me the officers were acting with calm restraint, while this guy was going certifiably ballistic for no reason, in a crowded auditorium.

    There's more to the story... this eyewitness account might give a more accurate picture for many of us, of what was actually going on:
    http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2007 ... _be_ta.php

    Another eyewitness account... again, it sounds like the student was trying to provoke and was way out of line...
    http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... ry-speech/
    "He’s just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn’t time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave.”
     
  13. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    A big +1. I think this kid got a little more than what was coming to him.
     
  14. posterboy7

    posterboy7 New Member

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    I agree with QP also.
     
  15. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Member

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    I'm a Forestry major at NCSU, so don't get me wrong. I'm a firm believer in experience being the harshest and best teacher, and I can't think of a better way to drive home the point than a taser when unacceptable, self centered, hubris is on display. I blame the root of this solely on the cesspool of the 'ivory tower' of academia. Such behavior is tolerated, perhaps medicated chemically, or ignored. Nowhere is there a pressing home of responsibility for one's actions, for gentlemanly behavior, for honor, or commitment. Perhaps the last feeble vestige of honorable manhood is the 'honor code' which is violated with routine abandon.

    Thucydides said it best:


     
  16. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Dayam strait, Thunder* ...

    Nuff said on this subject. <shrug> Rest is arbitrary. :roll:

    Wulf
     
  17. DoubleTap

    DoubleTap New Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnAGjmnfqik
    Gives a good view of the question and most of the action..

    From the videos i've seen, the stupid kid was openly and blatantly antagonistic, both to Kerry and the LEOs. When he was being peaceably escorted (NOT arrested), he immediately began screaming WHY ARE YOU ARRESTING ME?! A few seconds later you can hear the LEO warning him 'stop or you will be tasered', and he calms for a second, then begins screaming GET THE F**K OFF ME. I'll try to dig up another video i saw from a better angle, the kid is a good deal bigger than both of the first 2 cops trying to escort/hold him. The only one bigger is the black guy. That video also shows his constant struggling, and they can't get the cuffs on until his muscles relax after the taser.

    From what i understand about LEO SOP and tasering, the only requirement is the refusal to obey a verbal command. I've also heard that tasering is safer for both the suspect and the LEO than violent takedowns/force-cuffing. One of the biggest arguments i've heard about this entire situation is that the LEOs could have handled it better, but i honestly don't see how. There should be a few resident SC LEOs around to comment, no?

    All things considered, i laughed my A*S OFF at this video when i heard the kid say 'don't taze me bro, don't taze me'. Maybe i'm just evil.
     
  18. Dobry

    Dobry Guest

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    Agreed, DoubleTap.

    No, I'm not LE, but I do think the taser is an acceptable use of force with someone who is becoming physically violent and disobeying LE orders. And a lot less physically harmful to the detainee, than physical force. He could have hurt someone.

    What ticks me off are the "conspiracy theorists"... I've seen various vids and reports now surmising that Meyer was "tasered because of his questions".

    Absolutely not! He was tasered for refusing to obey orders from officers to leave, and then becoming physically resistive and violent. And he was definitely trying to "amp" things up with all of his screaming and carrying on, instead of simply relaxing and leaving.
     
  19. squirrelpotpie

    squirrelpotpie Premium Member

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    have seen security personnel use "sleeper holds" and excessive force in response to uncooperative people.

    a taser might not be considered "fighting fair" but its use may result in less damage to all parties concerned.

    escorting someone like the clown in the video who insists on resisting and struggling creates a situation that can get out of hand rather quickly. having 6 people grabbing him once he becomes uncooperative and physically dragging or carrying him from the area sounds simple enough but is more likely to result in injury than leading him tasered and befuddled off his would be stage and away from his audience, where he is more likely to calm down.
     
  20. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    The more I see and hear, the more I'm sticking with the security guards.
     
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