[GROUPER TROOPER 32]

Help draw me into the world of 9mm ccw. What type of ammo and why. Why a 9mm over a .40 or .357 etc...

Please post nothing negative about the other calibers.We've all read just about as many caliber war threads as we wish to read. Just positive/negative stuff about your 9. I am specifically interested in recoil and control ability under quick fire. Possibly links to terminal ballistics in actual shootings would be great.

 

[Narsil]

I did a lot of research before settling on 9mm for carry. What my research led me to believe is that shot placement trumps caliber nearly every time. If I can't hit 'em with a 9mm, chances are I won't be hitting 'em with .40, .45, or .357 sig either. If I hit them properly with the 9mm, they're going down. I like the larger magazine capacity, lower recoil, and round price of the 9mm.

I carry a staggered magazine of Winchester White Box 115gr. FMJ and Federal 115gr. +p+ (really only +p but labeled +p+) Law Enforcement JHP. I originally purchased the Federal because I found it on sale at 50 rounds for $20. I've since tested it on water jugs (crappy test I know but I don't have ballistic gelatin) and it expands beautifully. I stagger the rounds on the chance the HP's clog and don't expand, I'll at least get the penetrability of the FMJ.

Here's 2 pics of a recovered Federal JHP showing the nice expansion; nearly .50 caliber in one dimension.

 

[Syntax360]

Narsil summed it up pretty nicely. I can't shoot a .40S&W or .45ACP as fast or as accurately as I can a 9mm - I'd rather hit them twice with 9mm than once with something larger. Nine times out of ten, coroners can't tell the difference between any of the calibers when they retrieve the bullets.

I prefer the heavier loads in 9mm. There are quite a few offerings in which a 147gr. JHP will expand to the same diameter as a .40S&W (Winchester Ranger, for instance - I believe Federal HST as well); handguns lack enough velocity/energy for hydrostatic shock and all that jazz to make one bit of difference, so penetration and expansion are it. As a general rule, the heavier the bullet, the better performance through barriers - the 147s will deflect quite a bit less than the fast-mover 115s through auto glass, etc.

The 124gr. +P were all the rage back in the day when all the 147's on the market demonstrated inconsistent expansion characteristics. Modern bullet design has thankfully resolved that problem and the 147's are just as reliable as anything else going.

In my experience, perceived recoil is quite a bit less on the 147gr. vs. the +P and +P+ brothers. It's pretty fun to stagger some 127gr. +P+ and 147gr. Rangers and fire off a magazine - the 127's come awful close to a M40A1 feel...

Oh, and 147gr. standard pressure is subsonic - that's pretty important to me... It'd be real embarrassing if someone broke into my house and they thought my suppressed rig was too loud.

 

[xthexheadx]

i've loaded up on Federal 135 gr. Hydra-Shoks for many of the same reasons, and i've come bearing notes! I used to stagger 135 hydra-shocks and and federal expanding full metal jackets ( i think they were either 105 or 115 gr...) but the EFMJ just got too expensive when i could find them.

anyhow, heres the data:

Federal's own ballistic data for 135 gr Hydra-Shok can be found here.

some independant test data (shown below, ) was discovered here


__________________________________________Bare Gelatin______Denim Covered Gelatin
Test Gun______Barrel Length____Velocity__Penetration | Expansion____Penetration |Expansion
Star M43 Firestar___3.4"_________974 fps_____9.6"______0.62"__________?_________.51"

Notes: BB calibration velocity 588 fps/penetration 10.6 cm.
Penetration and expansion values listed are three shot averages per test event.
Bare gelatin shot #1 exited block.
Denim Shot #2 skidded between test stand and gelatin block, came to rest after penetrating 14.4 inches, and was invalidated.
Denim shot #3 exited block.
Penetration depths listed are corrected
[MacPherson, Duncan: "A Simplified Penetration Depth Correction for Data Taken in Non-Standard Gelatin." Wound Ballistics Review 2(2); 41-45, 1995.]

 

[Bittrich]

Both my wife and I carry 9x19's. After years of shooting, I still come back to the 9mm. Why? Well, availability of ammunition, moderate recoil, slight taper to the cartridge (thus facilitating feeding), accuracy and good terminal effects. As a previous poster noted, bullet placement is the most important variable. You just cannot miss fast enough. We both shoot Double Tap 124 gr +p hollow points. They use Gold Dot bullets. I carry my S9 when I carry and my M9 or M9-A1 guards the homestead. The Missus carries her Walther PPS in 9mm on a daily basis.


Bittrich

 

[GROUPER TROOPER 32]

Good information by all. Thanks!


Decisions,decisions.decisions........

 

[dtask]

This is what I shoot in my 9mm carry weapons. Good short video with some good info on it as well.


BTW. I like the capacity advantage with the negligible loaded gun weight difference vs. the loaded weight of larger calibers . I also agree with all that has already been stated regarding terminal hits, availability of the 9mm and the recoil/sight picture advantage.

 

[dodoinurpants]

The 9mm Hydra Shock is amazing stuff. We did some testing with various 9mm ammo. The Hydra Shock reigned supreme as far as penetration and expansion. A+ IMHO for the federal hydra shok


-------------------------------------------

Might Makes Right

 

[OffArtist]

Read a great quote about 9mm on THR today (it made me laugh, and I'm a 9mm guy so FWIW)

In reference to a 9MM:

If you shoot me with that, and I find out about it, I'll kill you!

 

[timfife]

I carry .40 Remington Golden Sabre. Quality and expansion. Also like Winchester Ranger for same reason. I used to carry Federal Hydra-Shok and still have some in my safe. I prefer nickel over brass for smooth operation but have never had any issue with any brand in my Steyr's FN's or 1911. Use quality ammo always for carry, chances are you'll never have to use it.

 

[aurelia]

Here in Europe, you can only buy and shoot with 9mm, if you have some other caliber, you better save ammo, because who knows when you will get chance to buy. Anyway 9 mm is most popular, in my country many people also like 7.2mm or 7.65mm but not me!

 

[SELFDEFENSE]

Winchester Ranger T 147 gr. or Speer Gold Dot 147 gr. for lower recoil affecting shot placement/followup, capacity, and cost of practice ammo.

 

[OffArtist]

AND I forgot to post the type of ammo I use.. For SD I use Hornady FTX, and for practice I use anything that's cheap - mostly WWB, Federal, Blazer and Remington. Just an aside - since I replaced the extractor I've gone through more than 2000 rounds in my m9 with ZERO failures with the exception of a couple using a factory mag with a .40 follower in it. That's okay though, I'd rather give em 17 than 10 any day.

 

[Shooter]

I carry 9mm most of the time. Gold Dots 124's, have been my main brand. Although i have acquired several hundred Federal 124's Personal Defense ammo. I think the next ammo to get is the Ranger 147's......then i should have enough back up.........if i do carry 45 i use Gold Dots in the heaviest 230g as John Browning originally design........

 

[Keltyke]

I carry a Springfield XD9SC or a Steyr S-40 daily. My ammo of choice for both is Corbon DPX. For me, it has the best ballistics and reliability of anything out there. A CLOSE second choice is Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel.

 

[AR4U]

I carry 9mm because of the higher capacity and lower recoil coupled with no real loss in terminal ballistics compared to other common pistol calibers. I carry 147 gr HSTs, but would be equally happy with 147 gr Ranger Ts or Gold Dots because all those rounds meet the FBI's performance specs and are recommended by Dr. Roberts. I tend to like the heavier 9mm's because my percieved recoil is less.

 

[GROUPER TROOPER 32]

Thanks for all your responses. I decided on 124 gr Hydro shok. It will be shot from a short barrel and I think the mid range weight will do well with the lower velocity. Stay tuned for a range report, hopefully soon.

 

[Syntax360]

Nothing against the grain choice, but I'd get a box of Federal Hi-Shok Tactical (HST) if you can - the HydraShok line has pretty much been forgotten by Federal in terms of bullet development and technology, and it doesn't offer the most consistent performance. We're splitting hairs here, but I just thought I'd mention it.

 

[darksidemxer]

i use corbon DPX and the 9mm is just the back up to the 45

 

[GROUPER TROOPER 32]

I am becoming aware of my ignorance with bullet technology. I went to Federals site and now see the difference. The tactical line seems to be better bonded for barrier penetration among other redesigns. Thanks for the education. :salute:


My other idea is the Hornady critical defense. I am trying to stay away from wide mouth hollow points for potential feeding problems.