What drills do you practice?

Effective Outdoor Training

My live fire range time is split between an indoor range (with its relatively steep fees) and an outdoor range (low annual fee, limited availability). I like the flexibility that the indoor range offers...I can check/mark my targets as often as I want, change distances, etc. with relative ease. The problem (as we all know) is that indoor range time can get expensive.

My question is this: how do you guys maximize your training value at an outdoor range? Our RSOs usually run abut 20-30 minute sessions...meaning I can only change/mark targets that often. (I do usually set up at least 2-3 targets, usually at 7 and 10 yds). I've been trying to post multiple targets on each stand so that I can get a good feel for how I'm shooting.

Has anyone run across a particular drill/set of drills that makes the most of outdoor time? I don't want to go out and just shoot of a couple of hundred rounds for the fun of it (although it does feel good!) I want to make my live fire time as productive as possible - given the timing limitations.

Your thoughts are welcomed!

Thanks!
Jim

Shoot IDPA Matches!

Jim,

I probably sound like a parrot in all my recent posts, but my recommendation is to go shoot some IDPA matches. IDPA Steyr's recently posted training regimen is perfect training for the skill set you will exercise during actual matches.

IDPA matches can be a total blast (pardon the pun) if they are set up and run well. If you only have time in your schedule for a few shooting sessions I would set the time aside to do at least one match a month to supplement your normal practice regimen. I say this because IDPA matches are designed by others and you shouldn't even know what you're going to be shooting at before you are briefed on the stage course design. Check out the fun course designs submitted at the IDPA website: http://www.idpa.com/cof/submittedcof.htm

A match should test all the critical skills involved with defensive pistol shooting: drawing from concealment/holstered, fast/accurate target engagement, shooting while moving, shooting from cover, reloading, etc. It also tests your gear to see what works and what doesn't - holsters, ammo, grips, etc. Also, you never know who is going to be shooting in your group. Just today I was shooting with a Delta Force Operator who drove up from Fort Bragg. You can learn a lot from the people you shoot with and the competition will drive you to higher levels of performance.

Being in Northern VA you are near the crucible of the East Coast IDPA scene. There are even guys that live near you that drive 3 hours to shoot the matches down here in NC because they are set up so well. If you want, PM me and I will connect you with a friend that comes down from the Woodbridge area and shoots an IDPA match almost every weekend. He can tell you where to go around your area. Here in NC you can shoot an IDPA match up to 6 times a month within a 1 hour driving area. My local match is $15 to shoot and runs about 100-150 rounds.

Of course, if you already shoot IDPA, then this post is for anyone reading who doesn't

Jeff

Jeff -

Thanks...I am really interested in getting into some competition shooting -- either IDPA or IPSC. You're right -- there are some good choices around here for both. There are monthly IPSC and IDPA matches up in Woodbridge and another IDPA match down here in Stafford. My problem has always been that they're held on weeknights and my schedule just hasn't accomodated it yet.

Has the furor over the IDPA rule changes died down yet? A lot of folks were pretty upset when the new rule book came out -- particularly over the equipment changes. Frankly, that was kind of a turn off to me for IDPA -- although our local guys said they weren't going to necessarily follow the rules that didn't make sense.

I know that IPSC and IDPA each have their own anomalies that tend (in my mind) to take away from the realism a bit (for example, who's NOT going to drop an empty mag in a real fight? I'm probably not going to take the time to put it back in my pocket!) -- but that's the price you pay for organized competition. I plan on getting out to one of the matches soon -- maybe the IDPA match on Wednesday.

Thanks again!
Jim

Navy87Guy said:

Jeff -

Has the furor over the IDPA rule changes died down yet? A lot of folks were pretty upset when the new rule book came out -- particularly over the equipment changes.

I know that IPSC and IDPA each have their own anomalies that tend (in my mind) to take away from the realism a bit (for example, who's NOT going to drop an empty mag in a real fight?

Click to expand...

Jim - LOL that sounds like the reaction at my range, shooters are the same wherever you go. Most of the people that are upset with the rules have guns that ended up being illegal because of some strange new rules and specifications. For example, in the Stock Service Pistol (SSP) class, the maximum pistol weight was dropped by a few ounces and this effectively made the stainless steel-framed Sig 226 illegal by 2-3 ounces. Holsters and mag pouches that were legal last year are no longer legal this year. The other thing is that shooters can be very opinionated people and as in ANYTHING with rules you will be sure not to make "all the people happy all the time".

My take on IDPA is that to a point you can decide how realistic it is. That is one reason why I bought the S9 first instead of the M9. I plan on using the S9 as a carry gun, so that is why I am using it and a Comp-Tac CTAC IWB holster. I could use an OWB holster that some of the top competitors are using and maybe save a bit of time and get a more consistent grip when drawing, but who am I cheating? I agree that the "tactical reload" is strange, and I don't like practicing things that I wouldn't want to do, but my range doesn't incorporate that into many stages. Mostly they design courses so you shoot to slide-lock before a mag change, which is much more realistic in my opinon.

There will always be a way to "game" a stage and save a few seconds. I try to resist that temptation and not even walk through the shooting positions ("air-gunning" is not encouraged nor legal on any stage) to get a glimpse (and therefore advantage) of where you will be when shooting. I try to do every stage "cold" and go first where possible.

I'm a competitive person and like winning as much as the next guy, but when I shoot well without doing the "gaming" things mentioned above, I get the extra satisfaction from doing it the "hard" way. That's why I don't shoot IPSC. It may be different today than what I was doing 10 years ago, but IPSC was all about shooting lots of rounds as fast and accurately as possible - the ultimate pistol shooting GAME. It also taught you to do things that would help get you killed in a real-life situation. Things like shooting from a static upright position out in the open are not good things to program into your muscles and memory. IDPA at least stresses shooting while moving, from cover where available and reloading from cover - which seem to be a consistent message from the top trainers nowadays. Just yesterday a stage had you start lying down on a couch with your gun across the room chamber unloaded - big difference than you scoped/compensated gun cocked and locked in speed rig that you could NEVER conceal.

I hope you get to a match soon. I like "training", but most of all it is just plain fun and we all know how nice shooting folk are!

Jeff

Jeff -

Again, thanks for the great info! My sense was that the IDPA bruhaha was really more internal politics than anything else. I think the holster/mag pouch changes left a bitter taste in a lot of mouths because it seemed to make Wilson the primary provider.

I like the idea of being able to use all of my guns. I enjoy the "variety" -- hence the broad collection. Actually, I'm very interested in the CZ P-01 as my nect purchase. I tried out a CZ 75BD a while back, but I really didn't like the feel. I happen to be in the gun shop a few weeks back and the guy handed me a P-01 to hold. I couldn't get over the difference in the feel...I really want to try one out. The price is still pretty reasonable and I think it would make a nice addition to my collection. Glad to hear that you enjoy shooting it.

I'm really going to try to make it to the IDPA match on Wednesday...just to watch the action and get a feel for it.

Jim

Cool - bring your guns and gear, you may just jump right in! Everyone starts sometime, so just go for it.

I can't stop saying how much I love the CZ P-O1. CZ 75s are of course legendary, but I think the compact P-01 with the accessory rail adding weight up front actually improves on perfection. It is a small gun but still has a full 4" barrel and is incredibly accurate for me. The P-01 is 28 ounces (rated for constant use of +P+ ammo - 30K round minimum) but feels much heavier than the Steyrs, so it is REALLY easy shooting IMHO.

My friend got his for $399 with 2-10rd mags, which is a great deal I think. A little tip when you do get one, you can buy $12 Promag compact CZ .40 10-round mags. They will hold 13-14 9mm rounds and function perfectly with no modification in the P-01. The P-01 does have a magazine-retention spring that keeps the magazines from dropping free (it's a European thing) but this is easily modified. I wrote CZ-USA and the head gunsmith emailed me back with exact instructions on how to fix it in a couple of minutes. I can email it to you or post it when you get one.

Have fun!

Jeff

You can use the Promag CZ compact .40 10-round magazines without modification with 9mm rounds and they work perfectly. I bought some from http://www.midwesttactical.com for about $14 after talking with the owner, who said this is what he actually carries. He told me that some Progmags are crap for certain guns, but for the CZ P-01 everything just came together. You can get them even cheaper than that elsewhere online. I shot about 300 rounds through these magazines with no problem, and in match conditions too.

I'm pretty sure that normal CZ mags work in the P-01. In fact, the P-01 will interchange with other CZ 75 slides and parts, as the company claims. J&G sales (advertises in Shotgun News and Gun List) sells a compact CZ .40 that appears to be a CZ .40 full size slide on a P-01 frame (that's how you know how stout the P-01 frame is built).

My buddy bought his here at our local indoor range/mega store - Davi's. There were actually dropping CZ (weird, but they dropped Kimber too so go figure) and that was about $50-$65 less than their normal retail. The guys at the range recommended a local gunsmith who charged $75 for a trigger job. The stock trigger is pretty damn good, but he got the last 10% or so out of it with no creep on the SA and minimal stacking on the DA. All he needs is some PT bar/dot low profile night sites and CT grips and that thing will be very nearly THE perfect combat handgun IMHO. I'm trying to make offers on it, but strangely he won't let me have it for a dime under $100. :roll:

Jeff