Wally World UMC ammo not seated deeply enough

Discussion in 'Ammunition and Reloading' started by Longshot, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. Longshot

    Longshot Member

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    I own an M40 and absolutely love it. We CCW qualified together with a perfect score even with the guy to my left flickin hot brass at my face and arms. My problem is with another pistol...my Steyr is too big to comortably carry so I bought a Kahr PM 40 (.40 cal) that I can hide literally anywhere it's so small. It doesn't like to hand cycle ammo though and it jams and mangles live rounds on their way out of the chamber. I admit I'm a little obsessive compulsive when it comes to checking and rechecking my carry gun and when it's time to unload it I'm always in for a fight. My question is are there deeper seated rounds for those tiny packages that have obliterated tolerances in the interest of keeping the weapon as small as humanly possible? The gun has never jammed when firing (300 rounds so far) it just hates to hand cycle. I use UMC 180 gr JHP in the green box for about 23 bucks from Wal-Mart (my Steyr and Beretta carbine love the stuff!!) and in my opinion the gigantic hollowpoint on that model makes it ideal for defense. I used to carry the WWB JHP in 180 grain, its hollow point was a lot smaller and I saw it over penetrate every single hog I shot, at every distance. I don't really want to spend a dollar a round if all I'm going to do is let the gun chew on them...any experience with this problem out there?
     
  2. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    Jeez - I don't even know where to begin on this one....

    Seriously bro - if you honestly beleive the "gigantic hollowpoint on that model makes it ideal for defense", you really need an education. There's a lot more to it than that. Check out Firearms Tactical for some good, albeit dated, info on the basics. Researching your ammunition is a noble effort, IMHO, as you are already spending an absorbent amount of money on licensing, the firearm, misc. equipment, etc. - you might as well spend a few hours at least learning the basics on ammunition performance and terminal ballistics. Or at least take 5 minutes to perform a simple search on the forum to find out what those who have already done the research are carrying.

    Steyrs are notorious for disliking UMC, and UMC is generally considered trash (at least their target ammo). And their JHP's are about as close to cutting edge equipment as your great grand daddy's Model T.

    FWIW - my preferred .40S&W carry load is the RA40T Winchester Ranger 180gr. The debate between 155-180gr. comes up a lot - what weight you carry is just a matter of preference. And of course I realize that a el-cheapo $20/100 Walmart JHP can kill just as well as a
    "premium" $25/15 or $20/50 top shelf latest-and-greatest JHP, but you're just asking for trouble if you cheap out or get lazy on the details.
     

  3. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Check into 135 gr JHP's at 1350 fps for pigs. ...And don't shoot 'em in the ass! :shock: G'luck :)

    Wulf <-- loves pig in Jack Daniel's BBQ'd sauce with Carona :p
     
  4. Longshot

    Longshot Member

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    Ok...so I'm an idiot

    I just wanted to know if they (the UMC 180 gr jhp's) were generally seated further out than any others out there....my Steyr eats em just fine...it's the little bitty Kahr that chews on them when hand cycling to clear the weapon. Like I said there's no problem ejecting a spent round, it just hasn't got a lot of room to work with to eject the live ones.
     
  5. DirtyHarry

    DirtyHarry New Member

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    Syntax360 may have been a little energetic in his responnse to you, but please don't gloss over what he's trying to tell you.

    After a lot of research, I am comfortable with the performance of 9mm compared with, .357 Sig, .40 and .45. I won'r argue the differences. But its all due to the performance increases in self-defense ammo in the last 10 or less years.

    I also feel that round placement is where the money is, but if and when I have to perform, I want as much going on in my favor as I can get.

    These are just my opinions (and we all have those), but do yourself a favor and read up on, and load up better self-defense ammo.

    Stay safe!
     
  6. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    In retrospect, I completely forgot to address what seems to be the essence of your question. The answer is no - all .40S&W factory loads should (barring bad QC) meet specs regarding OAL, etc. All weapons - even the subcompacts - are designed around standard .40S&W OAL specs. Shorting the OAL will increase chamber pressures - a noteworthy shorting of the OAL can cause very dangerous pressure spikes which would undoubtably ruin your day.

    Long story short, for range use CCI and WWB are probably the most common target loads, with my preference being CCI - it's relatively clean, you don't find glue from the packaging on the cases like I commonly find with WWB, and I can't recall having CCI ever fail me in any caliber or in any of my weapon systems.

    There is a ton of data that goes into selecting the "perfect" carry load, but if you want the cliffnotes version...

    For carry, Winchester Rangers, Speer Gold Dots, Federal HiShok Tactical (HST), and Remington Golden Sabers (preference on the bonded variety) are all ideal choices. The Gold Dots and Golden Sabers are going to be available "OTC" at most places that sell defensive ammo, but the Rangers will be a little more difficult to find as they are intended for "Law Enforecement Only" (no, there are no restrictions/concerns about carrying them), and the HST's will probably only be available online, and even then you will have to hunt for a place that has stock.

    My personal favorites are the Rangers, HSTs, Gold Dots, Golden Sabers - in that order. YMMV.

    Regarding weights, anything 155-180gr. should do the job, but I personally stick with the 180gr. variety - this is another highly subjective thing. Some people would rather have the higher energy on the lighter load, while i prefer the slightly great momentum of the heavier loads. The best rule of thumb when trying to decide is the old motto "energy hurts, penetration kills".

    Hope that helps ya out some...
     
  7. Shooter

    Shooter Premium Member

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    Now I'm Jonesin for some good Texas BBQ.......!!!!!!!!! :lol: O yea, UMC is generally trash bullet, very dirty..........
     
  8. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    I CCW Win Ranger T. If I am out I go to Speer Gold Dot. All in the heaviest weight for the given caliber.
    Don't skimp on your selfdefense ammo. Splurge.
     
  9. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    sorry for the responses you got.

    winchester JHP/Hornady XTP are more for penetration.

    just compared Federal Hydrashock 135gr with Remington green box 180gr JHP the Hydrashock had wider OD on the JHP tip and same max OAL. Hornady 180gr.

    40sw your SOL with a problem like that.

    I have had trouble with non factory long loaded 9mm JHP's in kel-tec p11 that sounds similar to your prob. doesnt like to eject the cartridge without hitting the barrel hood on way out. fine if its a empty casing coming out but loaded ugh.

    I love the Remington JHP 180gr a beautiful slug I also love the GSHP same weight. has held up better than GoldDots.

    could try handloading some JHP's for the Kahr but they wont be flying as fast. would still beat 9mm but not by much.

    9mm wouldnt have the same trouble because the manufactures like to load 9mm JHP's short with factory ammo.
     
  10. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Howdy Longshot,

    I agree with Syntax and Mr.A with one little exception (just a tiny):

    I wish this was completely true. Let me put it this way; Actually most of the time the problem is the Ammo. and not the pistol. For example Remington Golden Saber is one of my favorite ammo. for revolver but not always for pistol. Remington design use a longer bullet for what they call "positive seal". Some Auto just can't deal with this. It does not take away the quality of the Rem. GS but your pistol may like ....or not.

    Hornady/Speer was considered for a long time the standard when it comes to the .40 S&W. If your pistol didn't take Hornady ...well you throw the gun away. Today all the other major brands are all up to par.

    My fav. is Win. Rangers and there is quite a difference between standard ammo. and combat (aka law enforcement) ammo.. The quality is worth the price difference....Specially when it comes to Bonded HP. Don't be cheap.

    One thing thou ...my opinion...If you put one "In the Pipe". Leave it there as long as it safely possible. Then, when you need to eject it, put it in special box that says "Shoot at the Range only".
    Never rechamber combat ammo. if can help it. There are many documented accidents that were cause by over-pressure due to rounds that were rechamber multiple times (bullet creep).

    Good Luck!

    West01

    :D
     
  11. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    Just for the record - I did a test awhile back where I rechambered the same round over 30 times, and did it to 5 rounds. The OAL was virtually unchanged. YMMV...

    Still, I try not to rechamber whenever possible and tend to toss out rounds if I rechamber them more than a couple of times. Never hurts to be careful...
     
  12. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    Jumping back to the first sentence, it seems this question was generated because the M was too big to CCW. It seems like a holster or clothes problem, which if corrected, would eliminate the problem of the other gun. An M Steyr is generally considered a perfect size and weight for a primary CCW gun. You might want to rethink and investigate the holster and other carry aspects of the M40.