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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Howdy All :)

I read through one of the topics about wishing for something that isn't currently available for the M's and S's. The want for Tri-Trap Night Sights was on the list. I remember this in particular because its something I really would like to see for my own use. Currently, I have a Springfield Champion LW model at the gunsmith's having a dovetail cut for the Steyr Tri-Trap front sight. The stock rear sight dovetail is a little large, so its being installed with the aid of a shim. I'm really excited to see how this will turn out. As far as the point of aim changes...well, that's another little project in the making. ;( Anyway, I contacted P-T Night Sight's Jerry Ling and she emailed me back with the following info.

Jerry Ling wrote:

..."Leave it to me to forget to give a very good response. We have given thought to the trapezoid configuration and only one issue is to be sure there is enough “meat” (steel) to protect the bars. The gunsmith and the president of our company have been in discussion about this and since we offer bars for sights, maybe we can do this. But there is more to it than just doing it. We have to be sure we are not infringing on any patent that Steyr may have. We also need to be absolutely sure we are able to do this within the guidelines of our Nuclear Regulatory License. Any amendment that has to be done to the license can take a long time. It is the Federal government, after all and nothing gets done in a hurry. We have an excellent Radiation Safety Officer who does a great job but even she can be road-blocked at times. So the short answer I gave you this morning is hardly what you deserve. I apologize and I am sure I was quite busy answering the tons of e-mails I get on Mondays. In any regard, it is true we will be looking for Steyr at the SHOT show to see what can be worked out with them. If you would like to post this message, I would be honored.

Best Regards,

Jerrie Ling
IWI/MMC
Customer Service Manager"
[email protected]

All in all, a very promising bit of news, IMHO. I encourage those of you who are of a like mind, to make known your support of P-T Night Sight's efforts in this venture. Just a thought. <shrug> Hava great weekend.

Wulf
 

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What an excellent response!

Personally, I'd love to see tri/trap night sights. However, I'm not 100% sure that the tri/trap configuration would be a great night-sight "look".

In my opinion, tritium dots installed in the tri-trap sights would be great; so the sights could be the Steyr tri/trap during daylight, but a more traditional three dot config for the glow.

I'd also think that such a configuration would be more economical to make and sell.

We shall see what the future brings. But seeing as how the tri/trap sights are one the great unique features of these pistols, I think nightsights that are a direct replacement and keep the tri/trap config are an almost necessary product that someone's just GOT to produce.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Howdy Hiho :)

Love that handle! LOL Anyway, my thoughts, as well. If tritium rod holes could be drilled at the critical points on the front and rear sights allowing for daytime use as is and nighttime use having the Tritium shining through the tritium rod holes...something like that. I'm very curious where this is going. Hava great weekend.

Wulf
 

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*sniff*.

Loved that car. '79 Camaro. T-tops, 305 V8 w/4 speed MANUAL tranny.



Anyway - that's where the "handle" came from.

As far as the night sights:

I remember quite some time ago, someone talking about actually drilling out the tri-traps for tritium dots. Perhaps there was a company willing to give it a try, but it may have been cost-prohibitive.....I can't remember all the details. Perhaps a search of this site (and maybe the Steyr Club over at Glock Talk) could revive that old thread......
 
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This keeps coming up, perhaps this proves the demand for this configuration of night sights. I finally received my PT Night Sights and I must say that after shooting both my M9 and S9 at the range today I prefer the traditional front post/notch rear sight to the tri/trap.

This is after about 9,000 rounds combined through both guns and 8 months of IDPA competition. I do like the front triangle, but perhaps the rear trapezoid is just unnatural and has too much space around it for the accurate shooting required for IDPA.

Also, for night sights I also prefer the front dot and rear horizontal bar conifguration over 3-dots or just about anything else. The sight picture is very simple and leaves nothing to get confused - just put the dot over the bar. If you only see the bar, the muzzle needs to come up. The dot front also encourages you to focus on the front sight, which as we all know is the key to accuracy.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hiya Jeff :)

I understand that for target shooting and for competitive pistol shooting, the Tri-Traps aren't very popular and probably never will be. I've always been more of an instinctual shooter and seldom note the rear sight except seated at a bench with my pistol resting on a sandbag establishing bullet grouping when developing new loads for my handguns. When shooting while standing, I tend to look more at where the bullet will impact then trying to align the front and rear sight to my target for a precise POI. I'm quite pleased dancing a beer can around from 10-15 yards with very little conscious effort. A heart-sized target from 20 yards, freehand with a 4" bbl is about as serious a challenge as I care to undergo with a plastic defense pistol. I've never been a competitive marksman though I have some shooting buddies who are. None of them shoot the Tri-Traps for competition. There is a definite advantage in the longer sight radius that accompanies a 5" Bar-Sto or Wilson match bbl. Low lighting provides a very distinct disadvantage for the Tri-Traps, as well. I suspect that Tritium Tri-Trap sights could help and it really shouldn't take too much R&D to drill a few rod holes strategically to provide a reference to the POI under these low-lighting situations. Under good lighting conditions, it would be clever if the rods would be less observable and not be an issue at all. Anyway, thanx for your thoughts and participation. Hava great weekend.

Wulf
 
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Hi Wulf,

I should have mentioned in my previous post that it is absolutely up to the individual shooter what his/her preference is. You definitely have a system that works for you and if the Tri/Trap fits in that system, it possibly could be the best for you.

I would like to see the Tritum Tri/Trap system as you envision it, I did shoot the OEM Steyr sights for months in IDPA and actually placed 1st overall in a couple of local matches using them. I'm a believer that competition can improve real-world gear and I picture the front triangle in Tritium being a potential advantage in low- or no-light stages.

Even if there were just the left and right legs of the front triangle it could be easier to pick-up and focus than a dot, plus perhaps be better for precise aiming in difficult lighting. I guess that would make it a chevron like the Trijicon ACOG reticles - which seems to work very well for them!

Jeff

P.S. Jerrie Ling is "she", and a very nice one at that if you ever have the pleasure of speaking with her on the phone!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanx again, Jeff :)

I've only been in email contact with Ms/Mrs Ling. I promise, I have no animosity towards lady pistol shooters. Oh, and I suppose that I am assuming that Jerrie shoots pistols because of her position in the industry. At least, I hope she has some passion for the sport. I've taught quite a few females to shoot from 12 to 70 years of age. Should I be fortunate enough to get them before they have any preconceived notions of what the experience will be like for them, I find them to be very gifted in the eye-hand coordination department. I found also that following the safety portion of our introduction to pistol shooting, outfitting them with ear and eye protection and turning it into a game rolling cans with a 22 LR pistol usually gets them excited and confident that its a very obtainable skill for them and a fun sport, as well. Moving into a larger calibre they usually do pretty quickly for themselves out of curiousity, without my pressuring them to do so. My latest and perhaps greatest student is my girlfriend, Carrie. I started her out with a Baretta Neos. She picked it out herself and I bought it for her. I later bought a little Walther P22 for myself to join in the reindeer games. When she asked to try the Walther, she more or less took it over. I think it went better with her blouse. ;) Actually, it was smaller, had the double-action option, had a much smoother trigger action and she was just as accurate with it's 3.4" bbl as she was with the Neos with a 6" bbl. I traded her even. I liked the little Walther so well that I got a Walther P99 in 9MM. Very nice pistol. I never encouraged her to shoot it, in fact, I knew from past experiences that she would eventually want to give 'er a go. When she did, her first round couldn't have been microned any better through the center of a 20 yard target at 15 yards...I mean dead center! She laughed and proceded to chew out the center of the target 14 more times. I told her then and there, "that's your new pistol, if you like." She doesn't shoot her P22 nearly as much as she does her P99 now. Believe me, it would have been much less expense and less work picking up bricks of Wal-Mart 22 LR ammo for $8.50 than reloading her 115 gr FMJ's! I hope I haven't gone too far with this lady thing. I sometimes get carried away and embare-ass myself. As far as the Tri-Trap night sights, I'm sure it will get sorted out directly and hopefully with the aid of Ms/Mrs Ling. I feel that with a good working design, the testing phase will help to further evolve the sights. When they come to market, there will be a Tri-Trap night sight available to those prefering them to other sights. Oh well.... As my girlfriend often informs me, "its only a matter of zeros". Hava great Sunday.

Wulf
 

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my .02...

i love the trap sights, lots of people do so no surprise but... i had actually thought about machining new sights for my mosin-nagant in this pattern before i even knew these existed. it was frustrating me that at 200 yards with the iron sights, the post was bigger than the black circle.

i thought, "hey, if i could get this post to come to a point, and dovetail the rear sight to fit the post, i could really get this thing accurate and keep iron sights."

seeing the steyr tri/traps combined with the lci (best design thus far...period, brass flakes not-with-standing) sealed the deal.

my only beef... make the white bars on the REAR sight bigger. i have NO trouble picking up the big white triangle, especially when i'm staring a hole right through it. but i have a hard time lining up the rear, especially in low light and during rapid firing. i've considered spray-bombing the rear dayglow orange.

i find the triangle to be perfect for target shooting. i feel like i used to search for the center of the front post, but now the center of the front post is clearly defined.

that being said, hey man... if you make that thing glow, and the glowingness is STILL tri/trap, i'd be ALL over it.
 

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Epic_Ed said:
Yeah, I'm planning to do something similar. Bought some commercial grade luminescent paint from these guys:

http://www.lebelenterprisesinc.com/mm5/ ... _Code=GPDN

I'll post up photos and results after it arrives.


Ed
I had not read any new post on this. Just wandering if it worked or troubles; do you recommend/not recomment trying? I just received my new PT sights and noticed right away the bar. I would think PT would have no trouble at all with making trap/trianges.

Has anyone heard anything new from Jerrie/PT on this issue?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hiya Zeek :)

Funny you should ask. I just got this email from Jerrie

Hi,

Much to my surprise our business plan does not include those sights. I am sure when I asked earlier I was misunderstood.

The gunsmith tells me there is not enough call for us to make trapezoid style sights. The sights we have for the existing sights are bars or dots. But not in a trapezoid configuration.

I am sorry.


Best regards,
Jerrie K. Ling
MMC Customer Service Manager
4430 Mitchell St.
North Las Vegas NV 89081
[email protected]
I emailed her back and

Jerrie,

Plz put me in touch with the R&D Dude at PT. I have an excellent design that I'd love to explore with him. Maybe it'll happen, maybe not. <shrug> But, there is a definite niche in the aftermarket sights for these tri-trap sights. Thanx.

Wulf
...and she emailed me back with this

Will do. I have cc'd him on this. He is the gentleman to whom I spoke (the gunsmith) who is also R&D. I am sure he will respond to this e-mail today or tomorrow.
I haven't heard back from her, yet. But, I did hava phone chat with Allan Cornett and he has some good news about the Steyr sights for the M and S Series. There are tri-trap nightsights on the drawing board in Austria, and also plans for the release of front and back adjustable sights. Allan had a set in his hands. That's what I'm talkin' bout! :D Ya think it'd be too much to have adjustable tri-trap night sights? 8) Oh well...get 'er done!!! :wink: I'll keep those interested posted. Hava good one.

Wulf
 

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I know I'm late into this discussion, but I thought I would interject an idea I've had for a while:

Why not the tritium sights with "windows" that the shooter can see that are trapezoidal in shape? Do you get what I mean? In other words, insert the tri capsule from the opposite end that the shooter "sees" (the barrel end) and laser cut (or whatever) the viewfinder window in a trap. configuration that is easily seen. Personally, I LOVE the trap sights!!!! I wouldn't go back to standard ones if you paid me!!! I wish I could reconfigure my KelTec P11 into the same sights!

Ok, enough rambling...
Me!
 

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Thanks for the update Wulf,

I know this gets me excited. :D :D I'll not be able to sleep now, with anticipation. I wander if this site had any play in this? Hope so.

Best regards,

Zeek
 

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I was playing around with some pics of my PT sights and whipped up what night tri/traps might look like. Basically, a bunch of PT's bars arranged just so. Neat, huh? If this makes it into production, all I ask is a free set for evaluation purposes! :D

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Very nice, Scott :)

Now, make the front sight Solid and ya got my idea of Tri-Trap Nightsights. Go, Man go!

Wulf
 

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Wulf said:
Hiya Zeek :)

I haven't heard back from her, yet. But, I did hava phone chat with Allan Cornett and he has some good news about the Steyr sights for the M and S Series. There are tri-trap nightsights on the drawing board in Austria, and also plans for the release of front and back adjustable sights. Allan had a set in his hands. That's what I'm talkin' bout! :D Ya think it'd be too much to have adjustable tri-trap night sights? 8) Oh well...get 'er done!!! :wink: I'll keep those interested posted. Hava good one.

Wulf
I wonder if the pic of the tri/trap night sight scottw posted looks anything like what Allan Cornett had. I wonder if Wulf can get get us a sneak peak.
 
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