The current truth regarding ejectors et al

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by Bittrich, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Bittrich

    Bittrich Premium Member

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    OK, what is the straight story on the current crop of M9-A1's (with updated trigger, roll pin, etc) regarding any issues? I can't keep track. I am about to buy a brand new M9-A1 and want to know. If there are still issues, I am not gonna bother and will just use my old S9 , which has been flawless for years. :D

    Bittrich
     
  2. Talyn

    Talyn New Member

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    The extractor issue is hit or miss. I have no issues except for cheapy bulk ammo and thats maybe 1 in 200 rounds and I'll get an FTE.

    Ejector isn't an issue, just random brass throwing.

    Other than that, flawless from what I've been reading.
    As well as my own experience.
     

  3. blueorison

    blueorison Member

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    I love my Steyrs, but I have owned 5 in the past, and 3 had constant FTE's, even with the new extractor.

    I am down to 1, which works pretty consistently. I definitely recommend installing a 1911 plunger+spring. I use this one for competition. It's the old M9.

    I just purchased/traded to a new generation (roll pin) M9-A1 that was mfg. last year. It had FTE's every magazine, but the trigger was great. Another bonus is that it would double; shoot two rounds occasionally with one pull. Needless to say, it has been sent back to SAI.

    FWIW, I had shot 4 other new generation M9-A1's at that point, and 2 worked fine and 2 had FTE issues. Triggers on all were excellent.

    Summary; hit or miss. Just like Talyn said. .02
     
  4. engiNERD

    engiNERD New Member

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    I'm told there were 3 versions of extractors with the latest one being the better of the 3. I'm currently waiting on a replacement extractor from Jeff to swap out the older version on mine. Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures for comparison, but I'm sure one of the regulars here can dig something up from their stack of Steyr pistols.
     
  5. Bittrich

    Bittrich Premium Member

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    I don't remember problems like these with the old M9's. Is it just the new Gen stuff that is having the issues?

    Bittrich
     
  6. Talyn

    Talyn New Member

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    Trying to improve the wheel and failing.
    That's really the issue.

    The new pistols having the roller in the firing channel which got rid of the LCI which changed some of the dynamics in the extractor I'm guessing.

    So getting the angles on the extractor right to get the proper force applied is kind of important and requires a lot of testing and research. Unfortunately there are a lot more test people out there if you release something a bit early then back it up with good customer support replacing the part with the updated part.

    The newer extractors are a bit more aggressive and have a bit more bite to them. I think the tolerances were reduced on them slightly as well to allow for more dirt and strong operation during that time.
    Were talking just moving a pivot point thousands of an inch to make a difference, so I can give them the benefit of the doubt on this one seeing as they have not been using the same design over 20 years *cough*glock*cough*junk*cough*

    The tolerance and build quality to me sets these apart from other fire arms and makes me enjoy it very much so.
    The only thing I could ever really gripe about on these is that I wish the slide rails for the trigger group were longer.
     
  7. blueorison

    blueorison Member

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    ^ I hear ya, Talyn!

    This sums up what I think of Steyrs:

    EFFING AWSM. Machining and quality vs other pistols - 100 out of 10. Design? That's where it runs into issues. It's the design. No matter what, they can't overcome the FTE because of the extractor design etc and other variables. That's why I drop in a 1911 plunger+spring and pray that it works. Sometimes it does.

    The pistol is incredibly accurate at 100 yards, etc. The sights are amazing for certain applications. The build is amazing.

    It's just the stupid extractor design issues.
     
  8. ETH77

    ETH77 Premium Member

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    The single claw extractor is inferior to a flat extractor which grabs more of the rim. With soft brass or Al, the claw can literally chew through the rim leaving the cartridge in the chamber, or worse yet, lying on top of the next round. Couple that with a slick slide lube which lets the slide move quickly to the rear, while the pressure on the chamber walls is still elevated, and you have a receipe for problems.

    The 1911 fix works because the pressure into the cartridge base is such that the claw doesn't slip down and nibble off the rim. It's pushed firmly into the relief. This still lets a really slick lube job cause problems, but not all the time. With more viscosity my FTE's ended, period.

    So my thoughts are these, see if the new extractor can be modified to grip more of the rim, put the 1911 slide/safety spring in the extractor plunger spring, and get more viscosity on the slide rails.

    Just in case I'm wrong, would someone post the spring weight of the new plunger spring vs. the old plunger spring? If the new one is heavier, it might be that under certain circumstances it's too heavy, that is, it's pressing the case against the chamber wall too hard.

    Blowback actions are way more complicated than they appear. Timing is a tricky function when only the mass of an object is controlling when something happens, and the other pieces have parameters which don't depend on the mass of the cycling element.
     
  9. Talyn

    Talyn New Member

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    I think something that a lot of people don't realize (not saying all you guys here) is that the extractor doesn't "pull" the bullet out as much as the bullet pushes the slide back and the extractor holds on to the bullet to make sure its expelled from the chamber.

    The problem is as described above, the extractor doesn't cover around enough of the casing to effectively do its job as needed.

    Is it a bad design? No, I don't think so. It just needs to be tweaked.

    I'll be honest, when I took mine out, I stoned it. I polished what I could and made sure it was sharp. I have not got a chance to test it yet. (I miss going out in the backyard and shooting. *sigh*)

    if they made it a bit more of a "claw" style design. I think this would eliminate some of the issues. Not a claw like aggressive, but so it contours the bullet a slight more getting more area of contact.

    Some simple changes like they are making with it will improve the fulcrum point to get a better bite on them as well.

    I should call Jeff and chat with him about it so I can get the parts to look them over a bit for you all to see what I can come up with.

    Nothing better to do here at home than look for a job and read all day.