Stery-Hahn Model 1911

Discussion in 'Other Handguns' started by Buzz, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    The Steyr-Hahn Model 1911/12 is a gun that has always fascinated me. As I said here in a comment to Netfotoj in November after he showed a photo of the gun: "By the way, a Steyr Hahn 1911/12 is definitely in my future." Today I found one and have begun the purchase. It's a Chilean contract gun, the one shown below. Steyr-Hahn produced 5,000 Model 11's for the Chilean army. They may not be the absolute most desirable of the M11/12's, but this one is in fantastic shape and is a shooter.

    The seller sold the gun as "9x21 9mm Steyr". All of these guns that I know of, except the German rechamber to 9mm Luger, are "9mm Steyr" 9x23. The only 9x21 that I'm familiar with is 9x21 Largo and the modern
    9x21 IMI. The seller says that it might have been 9x23 rather than 9x21.

    Does anyone know about this gun or its chamberings? If so, is there a 9x21 round for it? Any experiences? I'm not going to shoot this gun a lot, but I'd like to know that I can.

    Buzz

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  2. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    Nice Find, BUZZ!!!!!

    I like it!

    I know little about it, other than you have to load it from the top with a clip, as it has no removable magazine....

    I look 4ward 2 hearing more once you have possession and range report is a MUST!!!

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
     

  3. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    I will definitely provide a range report!

    The seller has told me that it was the Hornady rounds that he had shot in it, so those would be "9mm Steyr 9x23". The ammo can be tricky to find with some of the older ammo questionable, but I've ordered 150 rounds of the new Hornady. The best price is $17 per 25 which isn't cheap, but I won't be shooting the gun much at all, maybe on special occasions.

    Buzz
     
  4. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Very interesting. When you get the ammo and give us a range report, if you don't mind I'd like to add your photo and your comments on shooting it to my Ferdinand Mannlicher page on my site.

    This an important page in firearms history come back to life. :mrgreen:

    Pardon my off-topic plunge, but I saw a Browning .380 in good shape in my favorite gun shop and I think it's the Browning model 1910. I'm thinking seriously about going back and seeing if I can swap my Walther P22 for it. My S&W 22A-1 has made the P22 expendable. :mrgreen:

    It looks like this one:
    [​IMG]

    Buzz, you're the expert on vintage pistols. Think this would be a good trade?
     
  5. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Expert?! Heck no, they just make me happy :wink: I think it would be a good trade. Depending on condition I see them going in the $300 range and they are a very desirable gun. I would like one as well but haven't found the right one.

    As to the Steyr-Hahn, hopefully my words will be happy ones! I now have 125 rounds of Hornady 9mm Steyr on the way, and thegun should get here about the same time.

    Buzz
     
  6. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    You probably know that Winchester makes a 9x23 round, but I strongly doubt you'd want to shoot it in that 1911 Steyr. It would undoubtedly be a memorable experience that you wouldn't get to do but once. :shock: :hand: :doh:

    Better stick with vintage ammo for a vintage pistol. Let me know how the firing goes. :mrgreen:
     
  7. AbeNormal

    AbeNormal New Member

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    Buzz,

    Very nice looking Steyr-Hahn!
    As to ammo It does take 9mm Steyr not 9X21.
    If you reload, 9mm Steyr can be made quite easily from Star Brand 9mm largo brass and 115g bullets. Size the cases with a 38 Super die and use mild to medium 9mm Luger load data. If you have a chronograph keep your velocities around 1050 fps never exceed 1100 fps.

    My Steyr's like 6.5g of AA#5 with a 115g bullet and a CCI-550 primer this is pushing them out the tube at 1010 fps and (assuming I'm doing my part) holding a 3/4" group at 35 ft.

    OBTW:
    Never shoot anything in your Steyr-Hahn except 9mm Steyr or your own 9mm Steyr handloads!
    Unless your intention is to damage and or destroy your pistole!
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Abe, thanks for that reloading info. That will be going into my files. Also, I will be saving my brass and I will also pick up some Star Largo brass for when the Hornady becomes unobtanium. That is a gorgeous gun you have. Is that orginal finish? It looks like a Romanian contract gun which would make it very valuable, but any one in that condition is going to be premium. Does it have the "08" stamp? Congrats on a fine piece.

    I found mine on GunBroker and was described as follows
    The main photo is dark but this other photos seems to show decent condition, at least at that part of the gun (shown below). The gun is being shipped Tuesday so I'll see soon enough. I'm really excited about the gun. It has always looked to me like it could be in a science fiction movie as some sort of blaster, sort of the retro look they like to use. I'm thinking about making this my birthday and Thanksgiving family shoot gun, one that is only shot twice a year, at least after I have some initial fun with it.

    Netfotoj, I've seen that Winchester ammo. I'm not sure about it although I do know they did some reproduction ammos. There is still a supply of Hornady which, as it turns out, is what has been shot in this gun most recently. In addition to my 125 rounds heading my way I'll probably try and keep 500 rounds stockpiled. I don't know how long the Hornady will hold out, but with Abe's reloading info I should be able to keep this gun going indfinitely for the limited amount that it will be shot.

    BTW, thanks for the great info on your web page.

    Now it's time to move on to the other Steyr pistols that can be had.

    Buzz

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Buzz, you most definitely don't want to use any Winchester 9x23 in your Steyr-Hahn. Here's the info on the Winchester 9x23 page, but these numbers tell the story.
    Obviously, this stuff is much hotter than AbeNormal's reloading max, so don't use this ammo! :shock: :naughty:

    Now in a modern .38 Super pistol, like this EAA Elite Match, 9x23 Winchester works just fine.
    [​IMG]

    I can get this pistol for $460 shipped, so I'm thinking there's a .38 Super/9x23 in my future. :mrgreen:
     
  10. AbeNormal

    AbeNormal New Member

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    Well, thought that a few more pictures may provide some small enjoyment...
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    DWM ammo
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    GECO ammo chronograph's at 990 fps.
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    FN ammo chronograph's at 955 fps
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    Fiocchi ammo
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  11. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Sweet!

    Buzz
     
  12. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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  13. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Well, my Steyr-Hahn arrives tomorrow at my FFL. 125 rounds of Hornady 9mm Steyr arrives today.

    I think it might be time to work on my uniform :think:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    And your stance, too. What is that, the Prussian/Weaver/Half Isosceles/Gunsmoke stance?

    And that uniform's going to be harder to find than the pistol and the ammo. Better get busy. :mrgreen:
     
  15. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Every time I look at that shooting stance I see in my minds eye Eddie Izzard declaring himself to be an "executive transvestite".

    Having just said that I'd bet that my Austrian ancestors are rolling in their graves.

    On another note, my 125 rounds of 9mm Steyr ammo arrived yesterday. When you put it side-by-side with 9mm Luger it dwarfs the Luger. I'd say that the LOA of the Steyr is at least 25% more. It looks more like 38 Super. And yet the 9mm Steyr is a similar to downloaded 9mm Luger?
    Some of the bullets have a light oxidation on them and I assume this poses no problems?

    I will be picking up the Steyr-Hanh ("Hahn" means "hammer" so I think of the gun as "The Hammer") this afternoon. It hit town at one in the morning and should be out for delivery to my FFL by now. How the gun will meet up to expectations will be interesting. Buying a gun from a photo and a brief description is always an experience.

    More to come.

    Buzz
     
  16. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    I picked up the Steyr-Hahn yesterday. It far exceeds expectations. First off, it is a big gun. "Hammer" (Hahn) is an appropriate name. This is the first time that I've seen one in person and it is a big gun. My FFL is my range and it was full when they brought the gun out, and I've never before seen guys oggling a gun like that. Besides thinking it was the coolest gun that they had ever seen they were amazed by the condition for a 97 year old gun.

    The finish is probably 87%. I'm horrible with those types of assesments and am always conservative with that. But, I'm seeing some holster wear in the usual places at the muzzle and on some high spots, but really pretty minimal. Everyone agreed that it was original finish (including a gunsmith) but I think that AbeNormal can help verify this. Abe, is the inside of your slide bare metal? Mine is and this usually indicates that the gun has not been re-blued as the inside gets blued as well. The original condition of the interior is often "white" (at least on many older guns). There is pretty much zero pitting on the gun other than the pin prick type of finish that you see in places on old forged guns. Looking at Abe's Romanian Contract gun (the cream of the crop in terms of desirability) my condition isn't up to that, but isn't too far below it. With some guns I might be tempted to do just a tad of touch-up, but not this one. It would ruin it.

    The bore of the gun is bright with very strong rifling. If there is any pitting it is extremely light. The gun hasn't been cleaned since its last firing so the real condition of the bore will be assessed tonight after a good cleaning. But, it's looking really good. I know that the gun was last fired with non-corrosive Hornady ammo, so I'm not concerned about a dirty gun.

    The grips have two small chunks out of them that doesn't bother me. I think that new or repro grips on it would look wrong. Wear on a 97 year old gun is normal, and very light wear is very desirable to me.

    Mechanically the gun looks wonderful. My understanding is that all during the production of this gun, even during wartime, the quality of construction was absolutely top notch with much handfitting. The rotating barrel system, not uncommon for the early 20th Century (CZ immediately comes to mind) is very well one. This is one solid gun. The barrel thickness is on the thin side, but I'm told this isn't a concern with proper ammo. The safety lever also serves as a hold open catch so that the slide doesn't slam shut when you load ammo via a stripper clip. On the plus side I don't have to worry about finding magazines for the gun, but I will buy a few spare "magazine" springs and followers. The single action trigger pull is fairly light and about what you would expect on a military firearm. I haven't worked with the trigger much at all (only a couple of pulls) as I don't have snap caps for 9mm Steyr and 9mm Luger and .380 do not do the trick. When I have some spent brass I can make some. I suspect dry firing a gun this age isn't a good idea. I'll also be picking up a spare firing pin which I consider to be a good idea with any older gun.

    When this shop gets a transfer gun in they open the box before the customer comes in to get the gun on their register. As the caliber wasn't listed on the paperwork they had to try and figure it out. To see what would fit they wanted to see what the gun would chamber. From what they told me they spent a comically long time trying to figure out how to get the magazine to release on a gun that has no magazine :wall:

    As I was standing there in the shop a FedEx truck rolled up to deliver my Benelli B76. I love it when that happens. As two guns went down on the 4473 they only charged me one transfer fee of $25 rather than two for $50. A nice deal. As it turns out the Benelli is 100% for sure new in box. Now that I look at the GunBroker listing I see that there was no reference to new or used. Even the binding on the owner's manual was unbroken. I love it when that happens. This gun caused quite a stir in the shop as well as no one had even heard of Benelli making a handgun. It is one unusual handgun.

    I'll have photos of the Steyr-Hahn up when the sun rises a bit more on this rainy Atlanta morning.

    Buzz
     
  17. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Here it is.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    BTW, the length of this gun from tip of the hammer to tip of the barrel is almost identical to the GB at right around 8.5 inches. It's a very large gun.

    Buzz
     
  19. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    FYI, here is a comment that the seller of the gun sent to me today:

    Speaking of handloads, I've decided to get back into reloading on a limited basis. I'll do it pretty much to be able to reload a couple of oddball calibers that I shoot (9x18 Ultra and now 9mm Steyr) so I can keep the guns going for years to come. My old progressive press was a Lee, but now I'm going Dillon.

    Buzz
     
  20. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    That is one fine-looking "Hammer"! Can't wait for the range report.

    I'd say yours is in far better shape than either of the two other 1912s I found online to use on my Ferdinand Mannlicher page.

    [​IMG]

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    And how about a photo of that Benelli, too? Never heard of it also and am interested.