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1,020 Posts
Should you get involved?
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Putting everything I have in the world on the line for a stranger sounds like a bad idea. There are a few people I love enough to kill for, and nearly all are related to me by blood or marriage. One can figure at least $50K going down the drain on shysters in a shooting, with the very real chance the rest of your life could be destroyed by the law. Does this make me selfish? Maybe, but I have learned that minding my own business is usually the best policy.
G
Guest
·In Ohio, the use of deadly force in self-defense is an "affirmative defense" and the defendant must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that he acted in defense of his own life or the life of another. Three conditions must be met to establish this argument:
1. The defendant is not at fault. That is, he didn't initiate or escalate the particular confrontation.
2. The defendant had a reasonable and honest belief of danger, of either serious bodily harm or death.
3. The defendant must show he did not have a duty to retreat or avoid the danger, including by leaving or voicing intention to leave the confrontation. There is no duty to retreat if there is no manner by which to retreat safely, and there is no duty to retreat from one's home.
All three of these conditions must also apply to any person you use deadly force to defend.
Use of deadly force to protect property is NOT defensible. In addition, drawing a gun, not just using it, is considered use of deadly force.
It does make you think twice about sticking your nose in. Of course you LEO-types are trained in these issues, but for me this was one of the most valuable lessons of my CCW class. I took the class mainly for the firearms training, but got a hefty dose of sobering legal reality along with it - IMHO very appropriate.
1. The defendant is not at fault. That is, he didn't initiate or escalate the particular confrontation.
2. The defendant had a reasonable and honest belief of danger, of either serious bodily harm or death.
3. The defendant must show he did not have a duty to retreat or avoid the danger, including by leaving or voicing intention to leave the confrontation. There is no duty to retreat if there is no manner by which to retreat safely, and there is no duty to retreat from one's home.
All three of these conditions must also apply to any person you use deadly force to defend.
Use of deadly force to protect property is NOT defensible. In addition, drawing a gun, not just using it, is considered use of deadly force.
It does make you think twice about sticking your nose in. Of course you LEO-types are trained in these issues, but for me this was one of the most valuable lessons of my CCW class. I took the class mainly for the firearms training, but got a hefty dose of sobering legal reality along with it - IMHO very appropriate.
G
Guest
·Definitely worth thinking about.
Presented with the opportunity to save someones life I would risk everything. Principle counts for a lot, maybe for everything. That said, I would need to be assured that a) I understood the situation (to what extent the timing allowed, this get's hairy) and b) my intervention was a necessity.
Property is perhaps even more confusing. I would not fire at a theif in my home if he presented no threat to me or my family (ex. someone fleeing with my stereo) but property rights are critically impoprtant. I would fire on agents of the government (if every other legal detterent had been exhausted) who came to trample my property rights, by "eminent domain" for example.
Presented with the opportunity to save someones life I would risk everything. Principle counts for a lot, maybe for everything. That said, I would need to be assured that a) I understood the situation (to what extent the timing allowed, this get's hairy) and b) my intervention was a necessity.
Property is perhaps even more confusing. I would not fire at a theif in my home if he presented no threat to me or my family (ex. someone fleeing with my stereo) but property rights are critically impoprtant. I would fire on agents of the government (if every other legal detterent had been exhausted) who came to trample my property rights, by "eminent domain" for example.
Joined
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925 Posts
Detroit is a WAR ZONE....seriously liberals should be forced to walk across it at night to have a better understanding of why we need the right to carry concealed (I doubt that they would make it out alive).
I believe every word in this man's article because it is just your typical tour of duty for a Detroit cop. I have friends that live near Detroit and they don't even stop for stop lights at night because car jackings are pretty common. I've never been to downtown Detroit where I haven't been confronted with a homeless crazy asking for money and believe me I always have MR. STEYR on me and ready to rock n' roll. However, typically I avoid that place at all costs.
I believe every word in this man's article because it is just your typical tour of duty for a Detroit cop. I have friends that live near Detroit and they don't even stop for stop lights at night because car jackings are pretty common. I've never been to downtown Detroit where I haven't been confronted with a homeless crazy asking for money and believe me I always have MR. STEYR on me and ready to rock n' roll. However, typically I avoid that place at all costs.
G
Guest
·The best scenario I had hear for getting involved was the "Shark Tank" scenario. For those that haven't heard it:
You're at an aquarium, Sea World, etc. and there is a shark tank. If a total stranger gets on the edge to take a picture and falls in, would you jump in to help save him? Now, what if your child fell in... of course you would.
Making the decision to get involved in a situation isn't always that easy. As a parent, say you see a teenaged girl being raped... as brother of somebody who was shot for his tennis shoes, what do you do when you see somebody being robbed at gun or knife point? As just a decent human being, I think when most of us see somebody being taken advantage of, we instinctively want to protect or fix the situation. Face it, most criminals are cowards and bullys. Half the time simply shouting at them will make them run off, but what if they pull a gun? It's a sad situation to be placed in, and seems unbelieveable to think that you would be put on trial for ridding the world of a scumbag criminal, but it will happen. If you do make the decision to get involved, be prepared for what happens after.
Best advice for if you do get involved, would be to spare no expense in getting the best attourney you can.
You're at an aquarium, Sea World, etc. and there is a shark tank. If a total stranger gets on the edge to take a picture and falls in, would you jump in to help save him? Now, what if your child fell in... of course you would.
Making the decision to get involved in a situation isn't always that easy. As a parent, say you see a teenaged girl being raped... as brother of somebody who was shot for his tennis shoes, what do you do when you see somebody being robbed at gun or knife point? As just a decent human being, I think when most of us see somebody being taken advantage of, we instinctively want to protect or fix the situation. Face it, most criminals are cowards and bullys. Half the time simply shouting at them will make them run off, but what if they pull a gun? It's a sad situation to be placed in, and seems unbelieveable to think that you would be put on trial for ridding the world of a scumbag criminal, but it will happen. If you do make the decision to get involved, be prepared for what happens after.
Best advice for if you do get involved, would be to spare no expense in getting the best attourney you can.
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