Saiga deal in .223 anyone?

Discussion in 'Other Rifles' started by Netfotoj, Jul 17, 2007.

  1. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    [​IMG]

    http://www.topglock.com/Item.aspx?PID=56178&TID=BM219-20070717

    I was thinking about a Saiga .308 at a local gun store for $320, but bought a Remington 742 in 30-'06 instead. There may be a Saiga in my future yet. Anyone with a Saiga .308 want to chime in with a review on it? :?:
     
  2. aubie515

    aubie515 Premium Member

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    The title is confusing. You mention 223 and you ask about the 308? Anyway, the Saigas are built very well...at the original AK factory. I like the finish on them and the way they feel over the lower end AK's being offered...SAR 1, WASR 10. You cannot beat the quality and accuracy for what Saiga 7.62x39. 223 .308 are going for these days. The Saigas also have chrome lined barrels to boot.

    Now the Saiga 12's are hard to get and pricey.
     

  3. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    I saw .223s about 2 months ago at a gun show.
     
  4. aubie515

    aubie515 Premium Member

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    I sold my Saiga 223 a couple of months ago.
     
  5. sewerman

    sewerman Premium Member

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    i've been pushing around the idea of purchasing a saiga in 7.62x39 just because the rds are so plentiful.

    i have held off though because i'm not to attracted to plastic. :(

    since looking at saiga i have done some reading on the VEPR.

    the VEPR is a russian built AK clone with a RPK receiver which is 1.5mm and from the info
    i read is stronger (thicker) and more accurate then the standard AK.

    also the VEPR is offered in several barrel lengths and stock configurations one of which is a very nice wood thumb hole stock with matching forearm. :wink:
     
  6. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    last I knew the vepr's had some issues though may have been worked out.

    223 saiga can be made to use AR15 mags with good amount of work involved.
    more easily might be using galil or 223 ak mags or modded 5.45x39. someone may make hicap 223 for the saiga.

    dont like plastic? so get a different stock they take stamped ak stocks though best make sure the stock
    is US mfg part. most rifles I see on the market come with polymer stocks AR15,FAL,Cetme,HK,SA,Ruger and many bolts actions.

    saiga's are good project guns.
     
  7. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Here's my .223 and .308 modified without any 922r compliance concerns whatsoever.
    http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9999/saigasfz5.jpg

    The thumbhole stocks are IZHMASH factory parts and the .223 30 round mag is a Weiger East German AK mag modfied to fit. The foregrip of the .308 I modified to expose more of the gas tube for cooling, and because it looks cool and more AK. The plastic of the foregrip is actually cored with metal (not cheap but rather nicely made) so a magnet must be used to determine where plastic can be removed. The scope mount is a POSP from Belarus and the Walmart scope is actually co-witnessed. I haven't had a chance to shoot these two as I have been spending my time working with my Cetme. I also have the Saiga 20 gauge but have left that stock for now. On the .223 that is a Tapco Galil foregrip. Standard AK foregrips will not work on the Saiga. The Tapco Galil foregrip will only work with the .223 and 7.62x39 (not the .308).

    Some consider these guns to be the kings of the AK world, true Russian AKs made at the IZHMASH factory. Fit and finish are very good for an AK, and the accuracy is said to be tops for the type. At between $240 and $350 these guns are impossible to beat, but get one soon as prices are steadily rising and they have become harder to get. Plus, the gun grabbers have these guns tops on their list, especially the magazine fed shotguns. The Saiga shotguns will be first to go. The 12 guage has been non-existent in my area for some time.

    The Saiga Forum http://forum.saiga-12.com/ offers a wealth of knowledge.

    Buzz
     
  8. sewerman

    sewerman Premium Member

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    yeah, i have signed on to the saiga-12 forum.

    the skeleton stock is beginning to grow on me.

    i still like the wood thumbhole. saiga offered an `M` model that had the wood thumbhole
    stock and forearm though the wood was common nothing like the VEPR.

    the cheapest 20" barrel i've run across is $265.00 at stan's pro shop ,georgia

    cheers
     
  9. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    One thing about the Saiga skeletonized stock, this one: http://www.gilbertsguns.com/index.php?r ... goryid=525 I'm told a place called Krebs has it for $10 less but I have only dealt with Gilberts, who were top notch and have lots of Saiga accessories and magazines.

    When you use the cheekpiece it raises your head up above the factory sights. Fortunately the cheekpiece can be rotated out of the way. The cheekpiece is great for scopes/red dots. The POSP sight mount mounts right on the side of the Saiga with the standard AK sidemount. It is quick detach but I've yet to determine how it holds a zero.

    Since Saiga is now importing guns into the US with this stock there should be no 922r implications, if there ever were. 922r (Fed law requiring not more than 10 imported parts) can be tricky business so I have chosen to modify my Saigas in a manner that avoids the issue completely. Some go with a traditional AK configuration which requires moving the trigger group forward to fit the pistol grip, and then the 922r woes begin. The thumbhole stock avoids the situation entirely. The thumbhole stock slips right on and only requires the drilling of two simple pilot holes into the stock to use the factory screws to hold it in place. Chimp work.

    Buzz
     
  10. sewerman

    sewerman Premium Member

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    i found the european american armory web site today and they show a very nice `M` model that has a wood thumbhole stock and forearm.
    also saiga makes a `killer` sniper type rifle.
    i wrote to http://[email protected] asking if the `M` model and the sniper rifle is slated for import. edit: not the eaa but the IZHMASH JSC OFFICAL SITE.
    check them out ....that snipe rifle is great!
    i did find the standard rifle for $245.00 16" barrel though i'm trying to hold out for the 20" but don't recall the company just now. the best price on the 20" is $265.00 from stan's pro shop,GA. most freight has been $15-20, which seems fair. my pet peeve is a dealer over charging on freight just to make a little more coin.
    i have read a few owner's complain that the wrist angle on the conventional stock hurts their trigger hand after extended shooting, sorta like carpial tunnel syndrome.
    have you ever hear of this complaint?

    if ya happen to hear of a better price then what i've run across then give a holla!
    thanks,
    sewerman :wink:

    P.S. noticed today at stan's the price has gone up!
     
  11. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    I can understand how the standard Montecarlo stock could cause discomfort after a time. It is a funny angle. I've left my 20 gauge stock, but that may change soon.

    I'm wondering how much more accuracy the 20 inch barrel will offer over the 16 inch barrel. Maybe someone has done a comparison.

    Buzz
     
  12. sewerman

    sewerman Premium Member

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    i posed the same question hoping that i would get a comparsion range report from an owner.

    basically i received the info that i sorta already knew which you might be aware of too, but here it goes... the longer sight distance / radius on the 20" model hepls to improve the accuracy with the improved sight picture. also the longer barrel should improve velocity allowing for an additional couple of nano seconds of powder burn.

    did you get to the IZMASH site and viewthe TIGR snipe style hunting rifle or the`M` model saiga?

    cheers


    P.S. i saw the skeleton stock at gilberts. thanks for pointing it out to me.
     
  13. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Very interesting. Are these rifles imported into the U.S. and if so, is there an online source for FFL shipment?
    The only .308 Saigas I've seen in local gun shops are short-stocked AK design, too short for my long arms.

    http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml

    Tigr .308 thumbhole

    [​IMG]

    Tigr Straight stock

    [​IMG]

    Tigr plastic stock

    [​IMG]
     
  14. sewerman

    sewerman Premium Member

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    i contacted several gun joints and nobody seems to think that IZHMASH has or ever will import the models in your post including the `M` model saiga.

    IZHMASH has some very interesting weapons that would sell BIG time here in the states.

    can only hope for the future.

    cheers :)
     
  15. sewerman

    sewerman Premium Member

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    i received a mail from IZHMASH today see my post : saiga model `M`
    cheers, hoke
     
  16. Triungle

    Triungle Guest

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    "Tigr" is a civil version of SVD (not AK) -- Dragunov sniper's rifle.
     
  17. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Unfortunately the kind of range report that you are looking for would require someone to have shot the same caliber rifle with two different barrel lengths side-by-side. From what I've seen at the Saiga forum folks usually fall into the long barrel camp or the short barrel camp and don't seem to own the same caliber in both. That said, I have seen comments from some who have shot both and some suggest that there is more accuracy in the shorter barrel (contrarty to what one would expect), but there are never any details as to which calibers and actual range reports supporting that are never offered.

    Of course, if you are shooting with a scope the issue of sight radius is negated.

    Buzz
     
  18. Triungle

    Triungle Guest

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    I’ve asked my friend who participates in I.P.S.C competitions with “Sayga” Cal- ,308
    with short barrel (AK version).
    He is nice shooter, and he is a hunter.
    He said that last winter he did shoot foxes in the field with distance 230-250 m.
    He don’t use scopes, he has EoTech red dot.
    So, looks like the short barrel has nice accuracy wit this cartridge...
     
  19. Polymer Proselyte

    Polymer Proselyte New Member

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    Heres my .223 with a thumbhole stock.

    [​IMG]

    From what I understand from Saiga-12.com the thumbhole Saigas are hard to get in the US. Another consideration with the thumbhole is that the receiver is cut diferently (like a VEPR) and a lot of after market stocks will not fit.

    There is an adapter but it involves hacking off the rear tang.

    Besides all that, it is very comfortable to shoot and even though my eyesight isn't the best the front sight post just jumps right out. This rifle is limited to 7 rounds in New Zealand.
     
  20. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Here's a .308 I could love, but can't afford, just shy of $1,000!

    [​IMG]

    $906.68

    http://www.topglock.com/item.aspx?PID=61780

    DPMS Panther Long Range 308, model RFLR-308. Semi-automatic, AR, 308 Winchester. 24" barrel length. Matte black finish, black stock. 2 19-round magazines included. Stainless bull barrel. Sling and cleaning kit included.

    With a 24” stainless bull barrel, 1 in 10 twist, free floating handguard and a high ride receiver for easier mounting of optics, the LR-308 has gone toe to toe with bolt action rifles and delivered comparable accuracy, with higher magazine capacity and rate of fire. The conventional thought that "only a bolt action could be considered a precision rifle" has been in contention ever since.