S40 v. P2000 v. 1911

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by azmike, May 20, 2007.

  1. azmike

    azmike Guest

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    I had the opportunity to get to the range with a couple of friends the other day, to test out my S40, now that I have a new recoil spring. We also had 2 HK P2000 LEMs and a series 70 Colt 1911, as plain as they came back in the 70s. We were comparing the P2000 side by side, and the 1911 was mainly just for fun, as I and one other shooter are mainly revolver and "plastic fantastic" shooters, with no experience with the 1911.

    We were shooting 230 grain ball in the 1911, 155 grain Winchester Ranger in the 40s. About 150 rounds through each of the three 40s, only 50 in the 1911.

    Zero malfunctions with any of the weapons, which was great, as I was having some issues with my S40 before I replaced the spring.

    As far as "driving" impressions went, we all agreed that the 1911 was preferred, being the softest shooter, with a very light trigger. When it came to the S40 and P2000 LEMs, we agreed that the S40 was a more user friendly pistol, having a better (light with a shorter reset) trigger, and better ergonomics. In particular, the Steyr was preferred for it's more traditional magazine release, and trapezoidal sights. We all agreed that the interchangable backstraps on the P2000 are nice, and the quality of the pistol is excellent.

    Accuracy wise, there was virtually no difference between the three pistols at distances between 7 and 25 yards.

    Overall, all three pistols were great. I was glad to see that my little S40, which cost half as much as a P2000, was more user friendly, and just as accurate and reliable. In fact, the only compliant against any of the pistols (voiced by all of us) was against the unconventional magazine release of the P2000. It works, but takes some getting used to, and feels unnatural.
     
  2. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    As a CCW weapon, for me it is the Steyr M, Colt 1991-A1, and the HK 2000 (shoot a friend's 2000: don't like the long trigger, mag release takes me about 3 tries before the mag drops, and the grip ergo is so-so for me).
     

  3. azmike

    azmike Guest

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    That 's what we concluded for CCW as well, but for HD or range time, the 1911 was tops, the Steyr in the middle, the P2000 last.
     
  4. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    I do like the nostalga of my 1991-A1, but I like to use my CCW gun for everything, so I use my M9 for HD also.
     
  5. I really wanted to like the HK P2000, but found the trigger too heavy, the reset too long, and the muzzle flip too great. :cry:

    I am not a fan of the 1911 as a CCW pistol. I would much rather have a lighter polymer DAO pistol for CCW.
     
  6. nixon

    nixon Member

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    CCW is not even an option here in the state of Kalifornia. For HD I can grab either my 1911 in 45 acp or my Steyr M40-a1 without hesitation. However, I'm leaning towards my M40-a1 because of its portability and it's unaltered state unlike my 1911 which has a light (about 3 lbs) trig pull that might be subject to lawsuit ? Also, getting faster with my M40-a1 with the double taps (controlled pair to be exact) from the 8-10 yd. range. Maybe 500-1k rounds more the trigger pull with be at the optimum comfort. Not too light not heavy either.

    shoot fast and straight !
    nixon,
     
  7. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    "I really wanted to like the HK P2000, but found the trigger too heavy, the reset too long, and the muzzle flip too great"
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Exactly the same feeling I have had the 5 or 6 times I have shot my friend's 2000
     
  8. Elbows

    Elbows New Member

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    Just thought I'd chime in...

    I use an HK P2000 LEM .40 at work (USBP). This gun is a damn hard gun to learn on, and is very difficult to get used to the trigger. A year since I've received mine, I'm now incredibly good with it (just shot best qual ever with it). The trigger takes the most time to figure out...the mag release is easy and quick --- and in fact I now find my new Steyr's to be in a "weird" place.

    The P2000 is compact, and light, easy to handle, strips incredibly fast, and is well built, overall construction is still better than my Steyr but not super-noticeable. ambi-mag release is nice as well. I can hit target consistently at 50 yards and in. (granted...at 50 yards, the spread is...quite bad!) Our standard qual consist of the following...

    1.5 yards (bent arm position)
    -1 round in 2 sec.
    -2 rounds in 2 sec.
    -3 rounds in 2 sec.

    3 yards (two hands, no sights)
    -1 round in 3 sec.
    -2 rounds in 3 sec.
    -3 rounds in 3 sec.

    7 yards (two hands, sights)
    -1 round 3 sec. +1 high search
    -2 rounds 3 sec +2 high search
    -3 rounds 3 sec +3 high search
    -2 rounds, transfer to single strong hand, fire 1 +3 high search
    -2 rounds, transfer to single weak hand, fire 1 +3 high search

    15 yards (two hands, sights)
    -1 round 3 sec.
    -2 rounds 4 sec.
    -3 rounds 5 sec.
    -4 rounds 6 sec.
    -2 rounds to emergency reload while kneeling, then +2 rounds, +1 high search, +2 high search, +3 high search

    25-yards (two hands, sights)
    -Barricade shooting, step to right cover, 4 shots standing, 4 shots kneeling
    -Barricade shooting, step to left cover, 4 shots standing, 4 shots kneeling

    Total 72 rounds, 360 points possible....my best score to date with my P2000 is 351/360...but thats because I suck with my single weak-hand firing!

    I'm going to actually go and do quals by myself using my Steyr once I get used to it --- just to see the difference.

    I love my P2000, but my Steyr is 9mm, so its a vastly different gun. The P2000 just takes a long time to get used to...its...odd. :D
     
  9. xjrat

    xjrat Premium Member

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    What is the +1 high search in the qual?
     
  10. Elbows

    Elbows New Member

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    All of the above are done from closed holster....the +1 high search means, after the initial rounds are fired from holster...go down to high-search, and then when prompted, up from high search, fire rounds, and back to high-search, until ordered to holster.

    Wow that sounds way more confusing than it actually is...

    ps: on the offchance someone doesnt know high-search...just gun aimed slightly down for better sight, and finger off the trigger...
     
  11. azmike

    azmike Guest

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  12. Elbows

    Elbows New Member

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    Yeah,

    Even though I'm used to the release now...I hit it with my middle-finger on the outside...my thumb doesn't reach the inside release...not sure what finger they intended you to release it with though...?

    The gun is very portable :) Heck, take off the slide...gun weighs nothing!
     
  13. azmike

    azmike Guest

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    Yup, much nicer to carry under a t-shirt in this godawful heat.
     
  14. Elbows

    Elbows New Member

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    Bringing this back from the dead...

    My brother and I got together back in May for this first time shooting...took my P2000, and M9-A1 to the range. He ended up using the M9-A1 the whole time (less kick, more "normal" trigger), and I used the P2000.

    We did a whole lot of shooting, probably...400-500 each over the course of two days (two hours a day maybe?). We did some ad-hoc drills that we made up at the spur of the moment. I had purchased some targets, of random types (normal silhouette...small silhouette..."critical" area silhouette...hostages even!)

    We did a number of drills using 6 targets posted...one in each lane. We would do 6 rounds in each lane, some on the move, some static, moving in until the final lane was advancing from 7 yards to 3, firing on the move etc. Very fun...and proved that moving and firing is hopeless for me beyond...15 yards?

    Luckily we use a local PD range, which was empty - so we had all the range to ourself. Great fun. We even had a 7 yard head-shot competition...emptying about 90 rounds into the head of one target until I got lazy, and put one south of the neck!

    My brother enjoyed it thoroughly, and came away with a much greater understanding of handgun limitations. We did one drill firing a magazine at 50 yards - 35 yds, 25 yds, 15 yds, and 7 yards....I was able to keep all 12 rounds in the body at 50 yards, but barely.

    I have still only fired maybe 3 magazines through my Steyr - but I hope to get some range time sometime soon - unfortunately our department is doing a full transition to the P2000 - so they are using the range almost every day. I will post more impressions. Good times, with good guns. :D
     
  15. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    "and proved that moving and firing is hopeless for me beyond...15 yards?"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You and most everybody else.