Plunger Spring fix caused another problem

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by Dag, May 13, 2007.

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  1. Dag

    Dag Guest

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    First of all, this is a repeat of a post I made in Maintenance / Tweaks / Technical Difficulties / Solutions forum. I realized I should probably have made the post here, so I apologize for the duplication and for any confusion I've created. Oh yeah, I'm shooting an M40-A1. Thanks for being patient with me! :oops:

    From the original post:

    Well, I just installed the plunger spring fix and made it to the range, and didn't have any extraction or ejection problems (no head bonkers). Yea! :D Unfortunately, I had several Fail To Fire, with off-center primer hits! Boo!!! :cry: A couple were so far off center that the dimple was almost into the groove at the extreme edge of the primer. I was using all nickle plated cases, but when I switched to brass cases, the problem went away. Weird! My suspicion is that I now have TOO MUCH tension on the extractor, and the rim of the cartridge is having problems fully sliding up into the extractor. Because the case is being tightly held due to the overly stiff extractor, and slightly off center, it's preventing the slide from going FULLY into battery. Probably just close enough into battery to allow the striker to release, but out of battery enough to allow the case to be slightly canted. I'm going to clip a couple more coils off the plunger spring, and try again. #^%$$#!%%^&%^!!!! If you have any other theories about what's going on, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

    Dag
     
  2. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    what ammo specificly dont generalize. generallized info produces generalized answers.
    dont you want specific answers? supply specific information.

    many brands of nickel plated brass. even nickel plated steel casings and zinc plated steel casings.
     

  3. Dag

    Dag Guest

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    Ammo description

    Hi MrApathy - Fair question, I should have included more details.

    All handloads. The brass, both nickle and non-nickle plated, were mixed range brass, with several different headstamps, and which has been fired at least once. I did not keep track of the headstamp on the failed rounds. I had one box of nickle brass, loaded with 155 gr cast LSWC from Penn Bullets, over 7.0 gr of Herco, using Winchester standard small pistol primers. The OAL was 1.130". Taper crimped just enough to remove any flare from the charging step. The second box was also all nickle, using a 180 gr FP over 4.7 gr of TiteGroup, and the same WSP primers and taper crimp. OAL was 1.120". I've shot around 300 rounds of the 180 gr load and at least 200 rounds of the 155 gr load, using mixed nickle and non-nickle cases, with no problems - no Fail to Feed, Fire or Eject, except a couple of failures very early on with the 180 gr load (less than 200 rounds through the pistol), with a dirty gun. Nothing since. It is possible that the mixed brass I've been shooting just didn't have enough nickle cases to cause the problem. I guess I'll find out next time I shoot. I have about 700 rounds total through the gun, with virtually no problems, except weak ejection (occasional head bonker, hence the plunger spring fix). The 50 rounds of non-nickle loads, that worked with no failures, was the 180 gr FP load (4.7 gr TiteGroup, WSP, 1.120" OAL). The vast majority of my shooting is with cast lead handloads, but I have previously run several defensive loads through the gun with no problems.

    I suspect I've gotten too much tension on the extractor (it was VERY stiff after the initial installation), and that these problems will clear up when I've clipped a couple of coils off the plunger spring, but this forum has far more Steyr experience than I do, and I'd really like to hear some other thoughts on my symptoms. Thanks very much, and looking forward to your response. :)

    Dag
     
  4. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    new brass and nickel plated? what brand? once fired ? fired in a glock? what resizing die ? how far down does it resize ie full length? any post sizing? any cartridge swelling after seating and taper? try it in the XD and get any issues? any burrs on the Loaded Chamber Indicator -LCI quick check is good idea if so needle file or stone can help followed up with wire brush and felt polishing tip will smooth it.

    trimming the spring may help though best to keep it little long and use it some as it will weaken over time with use.

    is the slide going into full battery or is it hanging up slightly which can produce light off center strikes.
     
  5. Dag

    Dag Guest

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    Ammo description

    MrApathy:

    Both plated and non-plated are "range brass", not new - many different headstamps, and no way to know what guns they've been fired in. I use new Lee carbide dies, and do a full length resize, ie the sizing die just contacts the shell holder when the ram is at full upward extension. No post-sizing, no visible bulge in case after seating and taper crimp. I do an absolute minimum taper crimp, just enough to remove the case mouth flare. I haven't tried this particular batch of brass in the XD, but I have fired hundreds of rounds of both of these loads through the XD, without problems, again using mixed "range brass". Next time around, I'll taker the XD and see if it has any problems. I always check the LCI, both visually and mechanically, when I clean the gun, which is after EVERY range session. Cleaning includes cleaning/lightly lubing the firing pin, spring and spring guide, plus the channel where they reside. The LCI looks and moves fine. It too gets a little lube by putting a drop of oil on the front and back ends, and manually moving it in and out a few times. I can't say that the slide was FULLY into battery (my guess is not), since I'd didn't visually inspect it each time before I pulled the trigger, but that's something I can do next time. Since the striker dimpled the primer when the trigger was pulled, it was at least mostly into battery (I know, "mostly" isn't good enough :) ). Given what you've heard so far, what are your thoughts? Thanks for your help!

    Dag
     
  6. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Howdy! Dag.

    Is the problem happens with one magazine or randomly with different mags?

    West01

    :D
     
  7. Dag

    Dag Guest

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    Hi west01

    It seems to happen with all 3 mags I was using. Just FYI, they're 10 round Calif Capacity mags. :(

    Thanks.

    Dag
     
  8. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Hi Dag,

    Everything is possible, but I would be surprised that the tension on the ejector spring could cause this problem. The position of the ejector claw or how well it is seated in its groove could be a problem thou. Someone had a tread in the pass (and I just could not find it...dang!) about his struggle with the position of his ejector claw and feeding problem. He found that the ejector plunger on his pistol had small flat surface on the tip. When aligned properly the plunger,,,the problem went away.

    Also by a chance any residue accumulation (powder, lead or nickel shaving) in the chamber?

    Cheers!

    West01

    :D
     
  9. Dag

    Dag Guest

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    Extractor pin position

    Hi West01

    Thanks for the suggestion. That's one of the things mentioned in hihoslva's extractor removal tutorial. There's a really good photo showing the pin. I'm careful to keep the small flat lined up with the opening. Intersting that I've had three comments that excessive extractor tension shouldn't cause this to happen. Thinking about it, I had changed three things: 1) I polished the feed ramp and chamber; 2) I used a batch of all nickle plated cases; 3) I installed the plunger spring. I can't believe polishing the chamber could have any negative effect (I polished by hand, using motion parallel to the barrel), nor would I normally believe that using nickle plated cases would be a bad thing. Which leaves the increased extractor tension, which current wisdom says is not the problem. I clipped two coils off the spring before I got some of these comments, so I'll give that a try, but if that doesn't work, at bigtaco's suggestion, I'm going to try some factory ammo with and without the spring, and see what happens.

    ... and the quest for the perfect ejection continues! :twisted:

    Dag
     
  10. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    No use running two threads on the same topic. Let's redirect replies to the Maintenance section.

    Link...

    :)
     
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