OK,...Doug, firing pin smears on S40s and M357s?

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by Guest, Nov 11, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    jon wrote:
    I had to return two S40s before I went to, and stayed with the S9. The S40s would have a firing pin smear on the primer, some smears going all the way to the outer edge of the case rim. Since I felt this would cause excess wear on the firing pin, I went to and kept the nine.

    Have you noticed any such markings on your fired brass from your's?
    ................................................................................................

    Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:18 am

    DougK
    Junior Steyroid wrote:

    The markings on the casings are the same with the S 40 as the M 357.

    But that is a great question for a new post.
    ...................................................................................................

    OK! So,...what is the story on the firing pin smears on S40, and now I have learned M357, spent case primers and case ends? It has been years since I delt with this and never ran across any explanation since.

    jon
     
  2. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    get it on 4 guns havent seen any wear yet. but good to keep an eye out for wear. 2x1 40,1 9 have over 5,000rnds through them
     

  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Actually

    The smears were not a "wear" thing. They did it from round one.

    I always felt it had to do with the possibility the recoil spring wasn't stiff enough (possibly 9mm springs) and the added power of 40s&w and 357sig calibers was too much and too fast of a cycle/slide speed.

    Since they were new and Davidsons had a no questions warranty, I just sent them back with a few dozen spent cases.

    So, I don't believe it is a thing that could come in time from use, but a more of a manufacturing flaw or a wrong part (9mm spring) mistake.

    jon
     
  4. Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

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    I think they all do it; My M9A1 does it...

    I've heard it goes away but I don't think it's true; mine has about 1200+ rounds and the cases look the same as they did at first. Remington primers are harder so the swipe looks a bit smaller though.

    I could be wrong but I don't think thee is a spring that makes the firing pin return after the gun is fired. If you shake the slide you can see the FP move back and forth.
     
  5. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    doesnt go away just isnt as bad looking.

    number of striker fired pistols do it, has to do with how the striker and striker spring are arranged.

    end of the striker should be round smooth and slick as snot
     
  6. DougK

    DougK New Member

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    Jon,
    great question...

    At first I thought I was not holding the gun correctly, but the smears appear on every round. Even rounds shot using a rest. Could this smear be related to the FTF that sometimes happens with the the M series? Is it a design flaw? Do Glocks have smears?
    Hmmmm....

    Doug
     
  7. madecov

    madecov Active Member

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    My Glock and My walther P99 do it as well as the M40A1
    All of my striker fired pistols smear the primer.

    I don't think it's anything to really worry about.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hmmm,,,my S9 doesn't smear my primers.

    Could other 9mm owners chime in? I'd like to know if mine is the freak in this pile.

    Personally, I believe this COULD be the reult of producing a 40s&w and or a 357sig on a 9mm platform.

    I remember when FN Browing finally came out with their HP 4os&w. They published how they had to create an entirely new slide to handle the 40s&w and that their competitors merely bored out and increased spring strengths in order to be able to jump on the HOT and RISING 40s&w market at the time.

    As to problematic or not,..I just can't see how a firingpin being dragged across a primer and or case base isn't going to cause some excessive wear. And when I sent two different 40s back to Davidson with smeared cases, they replaeced them without a word. Somebody , somwhere up the line, had to agree that it wasn't a positive.

    BUT! With all the testimony of thousands of rounds fired without a hitch, ...I guess my concerns years ago were ill-founded.
     
  9. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    steyrs were built in 40sw first.

    I have 2 M9's and 2 M40's. smear varies with the primer type.
    Federal will smear alot due to soft primers.

    CCI will smear little to none. Remington is a mixed lot moderate to little some none.

    winchester moderate to little last batch of winchester primers I had were soft. but if the primer is pushed in all the way little smear. if its seated just flush with casehead can smear good.

    nothing to worry about
     
  10. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    i wouldn't assume that davidsons agrees with you that the swipes are a problem. they have a lot of word of mouth passage with the "no questions asked" warranty. if they asked you questions and hassled you about a return, their warranty wouldn't be " no questions asked"

    in any event. both my s40 and m9 do it. though the s40 is more noticeable. as mr.a said, steyr designed the gun around 40 and souped it down to make the 9mm.

    what happens is actually pretty simple:

    the sear is the only thing holding the striker back. as soon as the sear lets go, the firing pin is free to fly up and down it's channel in reaction to forces it sees as the gun cycles.

    as the slide is coming back during recoil, the firing pin is lagging behind this motion, causing the firing pin to poke out of the breech face. it only has this reactionary force. but since the 40 is causing much more recoil force than the 9, the firing pin protrudes from the breech face more quickly and for a longer duration.

    secondly, consider the forces involved. i could drag a hardened dowel pin behind my truck for a few weeks before breaking the case hardening. you could try to chuck the firing pin in a lathe and center drill the tip. i suspect your going to need some pretty exotic alloy to break the case hardening of the firing pin.

    also consider what this pin is rubbing against: brass (soft) and the primer (super duper soft).

    so all in all i'm saying that brass has zero chance of hurting that firing pin.

    especially considering the case is pushing back on the breech with much greater force thn the pin is pushing out, thereby limiting it's exposed length.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Not exactly

    9mm was first.

    With all this conversation, my memory is coming back.

    I remember speaking with CDNN. They admitted to the problem and turned me over to the only gunsmith with the Steyr US contract to work on Steyr's at that time. He told me he had gone to Austria to be certified. He said he had some sort of brass or copper washers that Steyr had developed to fix the smear.

    But honestly, with all the posts stating no problems after thousands of rounds,...it obviously was a cosmetic fix that Steyr came up with.

    But,...my S9 doesn't smear, and never has.

    jon
     
  12. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Howdy :)

    Just so we're all on the same page, here's a pic of "primer smears" from my M357-A1 before it came back from SAI. When it came back from having been serviced for another problem, it was fixed. <shrug> Not sure howcome. These were WWB factory stuff from Wal-Mart.

    [​IMG]

    Sorry bout the size of the pic, but I thought it would help. <shrug>

    Wulf
     
  13. DougK

    DougK New Member

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    Wulf
    thanks for the pics.
    Doug
     
  14. Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

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    Wow some of those are pretty nasty, and they all different too hmm…Mine is more consistent and not as bad as some of them.

    Btw Wulf what problem did Steyr fix?
     
  15. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Hiya *Wolf :)

    I sent my M357-A1 in for a double firin' kind o' thing. When I first got it, I was usin' the Wal-Mart Winchester 125 gr FP's 'til I could get enough brass to start reloadin'. I like Winchester brass. <shrug> After a couple hundred rounds, I started getting a few doublers as in 2 rounds fired with one trigger pull. Kinda neato. :p But, it started gettin' worse and when I did a 7 or 8-round full auto startin' from a full 12-round mag, I sent it to Alan Cornett at SAI, upon their request. When I got it back, it was good to go. I always wondered if the primer smear and the doubling was related but never could really find out. Other members have reported primer smear and don't seem very alarmed about it. I can only recall one other "doubling" post and I think it was with a 40 SW, though I really don't recall much about the circumstances. I haven't had a single incident of doubling or full-autoin' sinch I got it back from SAI. <shrug> Anyway, "...that's all I gotta say about that." :wink:

    Wulf
     
  16. Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

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    Interesting … the only thing I can think of is the firing pin was slipping off the catch. Was there any wear on them? Or may be the spring was too weak to lift the catch up in time…
     
  17. DougK

    DougK New Member

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    Wulf,
    you sent a auto pistol in for repair. 8-O I am kidding :lol: I would have done the same thing 8-O 8) :roll:

    Seriously,

    Has anyone contact Steyr about the smearing?
    Doug
     
  18. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Hiya Doug :)

    Contact Bigtaco about how the full auto thing can come about. Seems like he knew the ins and outs of that mechanical scenario. Of course, he doesn't promote or encourage that kind of thing, but he did have a rather interesting theory. PM him for the details. :wink:

    Wulf
     
  19. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Hiya *Wolf :)

    Here's an email that Al sent me when I got my M357-A1 back from him. Maybe it'll make more sense to you than it did to me. I'm really not a gunsmith.

    Hope this helps.

    Wulf
     
  20. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    without telling the public how to do it intentionally...

    the steyr can go full auto of the trigger bar bend isn't exactly 90 degrees.

    also if there is a scratch in the face of the post.

    none of this concerns me though as far as steyr reliability. anything can happen with any mechanical device.

    i've seen glocks light up whole mags too.