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On June 24th, ABC News and anchor Charles Gibson will broadcast "World News" from inside the White House, and make Barack Obama's case for nationalized health care for him, without any opportunity for opposing views to be aired.

The liberal special interests have clearly learned from their missteps the last time they tried to force Americans into a socialized health care system -- the abysmal failure of the Clinton Administration's "HillaryCare."

That's why their friends at ABC News will be promoting Obamacare at virtually every opportunity, from "Good Morning America" to "Nightline," and reach from ABC News' websites all the way to the White House's East Room.

The Republican National Committee's request for an opportunity to add our views along side those of the Obama Democrats' -- to ensure that all sides of the health care reform debate are heard -- was flatly rejected by ABC News.

What are the Democrats and their media allies afraid of? The truth?

That is outrageous! And we will not take it!
 

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All of the local affiliates are lined up and bringing out heart breaking stories of health care failure. The one here last night showed a woman who lost her daughter to a gallstone attack and infection following after she lost her job and healthcare. They pointed out that the "Government" was going to have to cover the $440,000+ that was owed.

Gallstones at 27? What was she doing, eating?
 

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I sincerely doubt they are losing much of their target audience with this stunt... Those of us that will (continue) to abstain from watching their network will hardly be noticed, even if we're complaining while (not) doing it. They have nothing to lose, and their network is getting all kinds of chatter and free advertising thanks to the waves this has generated...
 

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uhhh...

i kind of find it funny that anytime anyone does anything governmental that opposes an individual's view, frequently the individual declares their intent to move.

liberals threatened this in 2004 during the re-election campaign... no one moved. california residents claim to move periodically anytime gun control comes up. there was talk about moving out of PA when the utility deregulation went through. no one moved.

are you suggesting that switzerland would be more conservative than the US? they've got all the makings of socialism including protectionism, unions, public healthcare etc... AND their close affiliation (though "neutral") with WWII germany... the original socialist.

it just doesn't make sense. it's a non sequitur.

i suspect that if one were looking for an answer to "too much government" one could find it in somalia, rwanda and the sudan. very limited government. anyone with bootstraps can really pull themselves up in any of those countries!

the GOOD truth is that WE won't let people die on the streets. we require businesses to pay workman's comp if they're hurt on the job and social security if they become disabled. everyone pays into medicare because insurance companies by and large wouldn't cover people over 65. a hospital can't turn you away for urgent care.

in other words... we already have public healthcare, we just pretend like we don't.

PRISONERS GET HEALTHCARE!!!!!! they're so hurtful to society we have to lock them up. then we feed them and care for them too. is it so strange to think that someone who is producing at any level be able to have some sort of healthcare?

my heart's not bleeding here, i'm very selfish. i don't want bankrupt, homeless invalids wandering around scrounging for food. that screws up MY life.

i think our healthcare system would be fine IF there was a way for EVERYBODY to:

A) get it B) afford it.

people who are most against any sort of change in the system are those for whom the system has always worked.

i dare say many of us, you, them or whomever would have a different opinion if you found yourselves 45 years old with two dependents; jobless after 25 years on an assembly line; COBRA healthcare "option" payments approaching $3,500 a month because you're a diabetic, she's got fibromyalgia , one kid's got turrets and the other has lymphoma.

seems to me like this person's right to pursue life, liberty and happiness was stripped away by the same company that took his bootstraps.

i just don't think it's patriotic, i don't think it's an american value and i don't want that family asking to move in with ME and screwing up MY happy home.

my big point is that RIGHT NOW, when people get sick, they get help. and someone pays for it. why lie about this? why not tell people they have to have insurance (put money in) and then have them covered when they need to take money out.

we all have to have insurance on our houses and cars. and RICH people can self-insure, no sweat!

i don't want one payer, i want competition. healthcare lobbyist are spending $1 million a WEEK against a government plan.... presumably because they won't be able to compete. the only competition i see right now is CEO compensation. the same force that drove market share leader GM to bankruptcy while ford and toyota are doing fine with less sales volume and lower gross dollars.
 

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BT, most excellently put.
You convey your opinions very well
Bravo, and +1 from me!
 

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Bravo Big Taco, Very eloquent post. I think that you have hit the nail on the head with:


i think our healthcare system would be fine IF there was a way for EVERYBODY to:

A) get it B) afford it.

But hear lies the rub, how do we do this and not A) bankrupt the country (they are doing this without having healthcare for everyone now) B) Raise taxes to the point were we can't afford the essentials.

I have been in healthcare for 20 plus years. I seen good things and bad things. The one thing that scares the living sh** out of me is the government is going to appoint people who will by committe make the decision who gets certain services and who does not. This in my opinion takes away from the core values of what this country was founded on. No were in the Decleration of Indepence, Constitution, or Bill of Rights have I seen any statements that the government is responsible for providing us with free healthcare, for that matter a high paying job, etc. A strong free market system were we get to make our own choices is soon to go the way of the dinosaur.

I like most people think that there needs to be a change (I hate to use this term), but what is the best way to do this and not bankrupt us all? GOD HELP US ALL!!!!!
 

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My opposition to federal government-run healthcare is threefold.

1) It is undeniably in violation of the 10th amendment. This should be all the argument necessary, yet...

2) Everything the government touches becomes infinitely worse and more corrupt than anything the private sector does. Everything.

3) They cannot be bothered to do the the simplest things demanded by the constitution and their oaths. You want to talk federal government run health care to me? Fine, we'll talk about it after our borders are secured and we've been protected from our enemies, both foreign and domestic.


Until then, there is not a damned thing you can say to me that will budge me the slightest from being 100% opposed to this or any "healthcare reform" bill.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My opposition to federal government-run healthcare is threefold.

1) It is undeniably in violation of the 10th amendment. This should be all the argument necessary, yet...

2) Everything the government touches becomes infinitely worse and more corrupt than anything the private sector does. Everything.

3) They cannot be bothered to do the the simplest things demanded by the constitution and their oaths. You want to talk federal government run health care to me? Fine, we'll talk about it after our borders are secured and we've been protected from our enemies, both foreign and domestic.


Until then, there is not a damned thing you can say to me that will budge me the slightest from being 100% opposed to this or any "healthcare reform" bill.
Agreed, 100%

Sorry BT, do not agree with you this time.

FUCK the current government.
 

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i am not sure when it became the government's/taxpayer's responsibility to pay everyone's healthcare costs or when healthcare became an entitlement or a "right" but without some sort of check on spending it will continue to grow out of control.

despite spending more on healthcare per capita than any other nation on earth, we are encouraged to believe that our system is horribly broken and in need of immediate government/taxpayer intervention.

currently slightly more than half of our annual per capita health cost expenditure is privately funded and our public funding per capita already exceeds canada's.

i think our expectations are out of line with what is affordable. a universal distributed cost system would cost each taxpayer $8000+ per year just at current levels of expenditure.

people should have a right to opt out of any insurance program and either pay as they go or choose to go untreated.
insurance and health care should be a choice, not a mandate.

insisting employers pick up more of the tab is just a continuation of the same old shell game. where money is continually taken and moved around in an effort to convince folks that these costs don't ultimately come out of their own pockets.

since legitimate businesses, unlike our government, have to balance their books to remain operational they must pass the increased cost of doing business onto consumers in the form of higher prices. of course consumers can usually opt to purchase less expensive products made elsewhere instead; thereby, accelerating the decline of industry and increasing unemployment and requiring ever more government intervention to keep the whole mess afloat ala Government Motors etc.

once government intervention has created enough of a mess that it "can only be solved by total government control and oversight" and the masses have been sufficiently indoctrinated enough to demand universal suffering for themselves then perhaps the best we can hope for is some kind of 80/20 solution where the government/taxpayer picks up 80% of the healthcare costs and recipients are responsible for the remaining 20%. that way the consumer will still have some interest in shopping around, limiting consumption and controlling costs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
MORE evidence that Obama and his goons intend to completely eliminate private health insurance.

:wall:
 

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2) Everything the government touches becomes infinitely worse and more corrupt than anything the private sector does. Everything.
This is the one point that I've seen the Dems attacking the most lately... "People are so scorned by all the other past governmental failures that they just can't imagine THIS working...". As if we're all all forgetting: "Hope and Change!" The law of averages doesn't apply here - I mean, this is Barack Obama. He's just so damned exceptional - how dare we so much as demand enough time be allowed for our representitives to actually read the eleventybillion page bill? What part of "hope and change" do you not understand?? :barf:
 

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MORE evidence that Obama and his goons intend to completely eliminate private health insurance.

:wall:
Yet they will continue to argue that this is not their goal. They told us and are telling us exactly what they intend to do and we sit idly by and pretend not to hear it.
 

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This is some of the findings in the bill that will destroy healthcare in this country. It does not appear that anyone who is voting on this has read the 1200 pages of this bill. Tea parties are great, but we need to let our congressmen know that we know. If we communicate with them, it might give them pause before they rush this thing thru. It is their re-elections that they are most concerned about.

"Now you Can see why Obama wanted this Bill run thru before anyone could have read it. The doctor did the work for us. Get all over these congressmen, I don't care whose district they are in......
This is a letter written by Dr. Stephen Fraser to Senator Bayh. If you would like to send it on to your Congressman, he says to feel free to copy it and send it around to our friends and to senators and representatives.




July 23, 2009

Senator Bayh,

As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the healthcare bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.

I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!


Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to you ur banks accounts for elective funds transfer.

Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens.

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE!

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that!

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same!

Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, proffession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.

Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own!

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.

Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Comittee. Can you say HC by phone?

Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients.

Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life!

Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN?

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.


Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

Respectfully,

Stephen E Fraser MD"


I hope that this helps. Sleep well!

jlate
 

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So I had a little trip to the emergency room last month. Yes, it was a true emergency. I just beat the clock on getting admitted. So I get the bill from the hospital yesterday. The room was $383, o.k. The professional services, not the physician fees, were $326, fine. Blood work was $708, huh? Pharmacy services, a vial of a decades old era antibiotic, $519, wtf.

I checked online for the cost of the highest milligram vial available, $42. I then went to a private, certified lab for bloodwork follow up and had a full metabolic workup, thyroid panel and liver panel, $79.

I guess I got price gouged by the hospital or had to pay for the non paying person the month before.The medical care was top notch.

As much as this billing is unfair, an inconvenience, I will not go to Switzerland. This is my country I will not abandon it.
 

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GT, I would take the bill and go to the financial dept of the hospital and ask them to explain, particularily the lab work and the pharmacy items. I would also take your research with you. I bet they will reduce it down. Do not take know for and answer and if you do not get a decent answer from the person you deal with ask to speak to the supervisor and if that gets you no where then ask to speak to the CFO of the hospital. If they are reputable the hospital should give you a detailed explanation if writting with reasons for the cost. JP
 

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My recent injury has some startling numbers. Between the hospital visit, the follow up the same day, to the orthopedic doc, and surgery my insurance sent me a statement. $14k billed, $6100 paid by ins, my co pays $300. And in two months I have NOT gotten a separate bill from anyone. (knocking on wood table for good measure)
 

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