My C9A1 is the least reliable firearm that I own. Questions within.

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by coltc, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    It's unfortunate because I love the size and feel of the gun. More so than my M9A1 which runs great, much better than the C9A1.

    My C9A1 has a manufacture date of July of 2015. Upon taking it out shooting for the first time, I noticed that the ejection pattern was very erratic when compared to my M9A1. I also experienced some failures to feed where I'd have to bump the rear of the slide to get the round chambered.

    I contacted Steyr and sent the top end of the gun in. They replaced the recoil spring and entire extractor assembly. I recently took the gun back out and had a lot of failures to eject. Empty brass still in the chamber while attempting to feed another round. The ejection was still just as erratic as ever.

    2017-12-26 17.06.29.jpg

    Having watched several youtube videos it appears that erratic ejection is not an abnormality but rather a feature of the smaller slide having Steyr handguns. It appears that just about all of the S9 or C9 videos I have watched show the guns throwing brass every direction including straight back, straight up, to the left of the pistol, etc.. That being said, I have given up on any attempt to get good ejection out of my C9A1. I would like to at least get the gun running right.

    Does this picture look right to anyone? My M9A1 is on the right while my C9A1 as sent back by Steyr is on the left. It seems the geometry of the extractor is rather goofy on the C9A1. I'm no expert but the M9A1 looks like the extractor will grip the rim of the brass while the new extractor on the C9A1 looks like it sits up rather high.

    2017-12-26 17.17.11.jpg

    I've read that some people will replace the spring inside the extractor assembly with a spring from a 1911. I'd rather not do that unless someone can say for sure that their extractor in their 9mm sits like mine in the picture above.

    I'm almost at the point of just throwing in the towel on this C9A1.

    Do you have a C9A1 or S9A1 that runs with no issues and ejects good?
     
  2. AZHTfreak

    AZHTfreak Member

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    Yep, looks like the C9 extractor is not perpendicular to the slide. Its easy to pry out and re-seat to see if that fixes... I'll have to look at mine to compare and will get back to you. Got a C9 (05/14), S9 (06/15) & L9 threaded (06/16) with 750+ rds through each, 2-3 malfs total across all 3 with all sorts of ammo. The C9 is my EDC... Though my buddy bought his C9 with me - same birth date - and did have to install a new extractor due to FTEs. New extractor fixed those 100% and has been gtg since, No 1911 spring needed.
     
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  3. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    Still waiting on another extractor from Steyr. They don't seem to follow thru on anything they tell you unless you keep on them.
     
  4. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    Took it out again with the new, new extractor.

    Roughly 350rds of Federal Brass 115gr - 5 failures to extract

    30rds of Federal Aluminum 115gr - no issues

    150rds Winchester Nato 124gr - 1 failure to go into battery. So much brass to the forehead I won't shoot this ammo any more in this gun. It seriously hurt.

    Think I'm done with this gun unless anyone has any suggestions?

    I have to accept that Steyr has no answers. I won't keep an unreliable or ammo picky gun. This sucks as I love the feel and how it carries in the Vedder holster.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  5. Grapevine

    Grapevine Member

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    The S and C series in 9mm seem to be the most problematic.
     
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  6. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    I'm getting no where dealing with Steyr Arms.

    I've forwarded all my emails back and forth with them to Steyr-Mannlicher in an attempt to go over their head and asked them if they have any solutions.

    If they don't, I think I'll make a video destroying the gun and put it on YouTube.
     
    Joemb likes this.
  7. RangerPointPrecision

    RangerPointPrecision New Member

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    Coltc I have brought this to the attention of our R&D department. They’ll be doing diagnosis and testing this week to figure out a fix.

    Stay tuned!
     
  8. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    2018-01-25 09.24.42.jpg
    2018-01-25 09.24.24.jpg

    Here's a large part of the problem. The top extractor in both pics is from my M9A1. It has no issues. The bottom is a new extractor from Steyr for my C9A1. You can see the differences.

    The new extractor from Steyr does not hold onto the brass. When I simulate the action using a piece of fired brass, there is no retention of the brass when the barrel unlocks from the slide as it would while ejecting and reloading.

    I asked Steyr for an old extractor and I haven't heard back. I sent an email to Steyr-Mannlicher and haven't heard back as of yet.

    In addition to the failures to extract, it also has horrible ejection. Every YouTube vid of the S9A1 or C9A1 I have watched shows erratic ejection. Steyr doesn't seem to care enough to address the issue as this appears to have been the case for years now.
     
    RangerPointPrecision likes this.
  9. Grapevine

    Grapevine Member

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    Coltc,
    Try checking that you have the extractor's plunger that pushes the extractor correctly installed. It has a side with a large bevel and a side with a short small bevel. The short small bevel should be facing the outside so that when installed you can see it.

    I bought my L9-A1 from a guy who said in his ad that the gun would have sporadic ejection/extraction with weak ammo but was fine with hotter ammo. It turned out that was a lie to sell the gun because it wouldn't extract most of the time regardless of how hot the ammo was. I decided to try adding a 1911 plunger spring in with the Steyr's in order to boost the tension the extractor would put on the case (other Steyr owners have done this with success). In doing so I saw that the guy had his plunger in wrong, with the large bevel facing out. As an experiment I put the addition of the 1911 plunger spring in but keeping the plunger positioned wrong, to see if that would cure the problem. It didn't. The gun still had extraction problems. Then I took the extractor out again and this time turned the plunger so that the small bevel faced outward, along with using the 1911 spring added in with the Steyr's own spring. It extracted and ejected brass without problems, and is now my favorite handgun.

    So do check that you have that plunger correctly installed. And before giving up, try buying a 1911 plunger spring (only a few dollars though shipping will add several more dollars) and install it in with the Steyr extractor spring. The 1911 spring is smaller in diameter and will fit within the Steyr spring. It's longer than the Steyr spring so once it's within the Steyr spring, trim it so that it's flush on both ends with the Steyr spring. It'll be very difficult to put the extractor back in against the tension from the combined springs, and the plunger has a tendency to want to turn so that the big bevel faces outward as you struggle to get the extractor in against the stronger tension. But keep at it. Once the double springs are in it might help with ejection as well.
     
  10. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    I appreciate the feedback but I most certainly have the extractor installed correctly.

    I do not belive it's a matter of spring tension, rather extractor geometry. I guess it could also be how that extractor extractor geometry relates to my pistols geometry. If you look at the second pic in the OP, I believe that is the issue. The extractor doesn't even look right in the pistol. Steyr sent another one (this is in addition to the one they installed when they had the slide) and it's yhe same.

    The extractor simply does not grip onto the brass properly when the barrel is unlocked from the slide.
     
  11. maitake

    maitake New Member

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    Just to clarify: your pistol was being serviced by Steyr in Alabama? Doesn't seem like the service that other people report.
     
  12. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    Yes, I've been dealing with Jeff. To be fair I just don't think they have any answers. I honestly would have expected a decent firearm company to offer to swap the gun out by now, but nothing. They haven't even responded to my request for an "old style" extractor, nor have I heard back from the parent company Steyr Mannlicher. That's not a surprise as I've had to ask them the same things multiple times and make sure they follow thru with things they have said. Otherwise they just seem to forget.

    I might just get out of Steyrs all together. I've never had to deal with stuff like this with my Glocks, CZs, S&Ws, etc.
     
  13. RangerPointPrecision

    RangerPointPrecision New Member

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    Hey Coltc - We looked at all of the new Steyr pistols we ordered in December. C, S, M and L all have the same extractor. The bad one you have is the problem. Extractor claw shape looks off - shorter and not horizontal. Possible they got a bad batch of them. If they can get you a new one you should be set.

    In looking at the Steyr extractor the guys see lots of room for improvement. They’re adding it to the R&D list.

    On ejection, we’ll be experimenting with the ejector to see what mods could be done to make it better.
     
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  14. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    I just heard back from Steyr. They are sending an old style extractor and one for a 40 S&W as they said that may work as well.

    I wish they'd send some ammo too. Put over 1k thru this thing just testing reliability issues.

    I'll update this when I get it out and test again.
     
    RangerPointPrecision likes this.
  15. MrFletch

    MrFletch Active Member

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    If you all could put the unreliable and erratic ejecting brass issues to bed you'd improve the one glaring black eye Steyr has. Time magazine person/people of the year 2018?
     
  16. RangerPointPrecision

    RangerPointPrecision New Member

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    LOL. We solved the extraction and ejection issues in Marlin 1894 leverguns. That was a 100 year problem that took us 6 months.

    This will be much easier. Stay tuned!
     
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  17. tenchu74

    tenchu74 Member

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    +1 on installing a 1911 safety plunger spring. I had the same FTE issues on my M357A1. Steyr sent me a new extractor and that still didn't fix the issue. I installed the 1911 Plunger spring inside the Steyr extractor spring without trimming it. Since I've done this I have had no further FTE's.
    I don't see why you are hesitant to try this fix though you know others have had success with it?
     
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  18. coltc

    coltc New Member

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    I do not believe it is a matter of spring tension at all. It's a matter of extractor geometry.

    If the new extractor was shaped like my old extractor and I had these problems, I'd try the spring fix. The fact is, these new extractors suck. They don't hold onto the brass and that's not because of spring tension. It's because of a terrible part.

    Even so, why should someone have to create a fix for a factory firearm that doesn't not involve factory parts? Do you have to use Sig parts to get your Glocks running?

    If the spring is too weak when used in conjuction with a properly designed extractor, shouldn't Steyr offer a better spring?
     
  19. tenchu74

    tenchu74 Member

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    Yes they should just work from the get go. It's why I'm hesitant to recommend them to friends that want to use them for anything but a range gun. It's obvious to me that Steyr looks at its handgun line as an afterthought and isn't interested in making inroads into the market. It's unfortunate cuz I love the looks and features of the pistol. I went with the 1911 spring cuz I already tried to go through Steyr and their solution didn't work. I had read about this option and since I just wanted my pistol to work, I decided to give it a try. Glad I did cuz now I enjoy it thoroughly and even though I don't carry it for defense, I would have no problem doing so. Good luck on your quest!
     
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