MORE GUNS, LESS CRIME

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Netfotoj, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    MORE GUNS, LESS CRIME: Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits.

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it, gun banners! :mrgreen:
     
  2. Common sense prevails.

    I've lived in Michigan most of my life and I have to say that the county boards and certified instructors here are doing an excellent job.

    The public though still needs to see these type of articles and stats so that those with permits aren't viewed as dangerous, but rather responsible uber-citizens as I call them.
     

  3. Vauxurellius

    Vauxurellius Guest

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    I think that if you not only let people get the guns and the licenses but also train them to use them inteligently then you won't have a problem. I think it is like the autobahn, take away the restrictions but train people to use it correctly and you don't have problems. I do think that you will have those people that abuse it but that is not the norm.

    If you allow people to carry guns and train them to use them properly and train them on the times and situations in which you can use your gun legally, then you will find that the majority of people are going to take this for what it is and not abuse it. I would not expect everyone to carry a gun but those that would carry would be competent enough to use them. I hope that more people learn the importance of owning and carrying personal defense weapons. I am not asking everyone to carry but I am asking for some tolerance. Just because some don't like guns doesn't mean that there needs to be gun restrictions. Guns are not inherently evil. People as a whole expect that police and military personel all carry a gun, but they also expect that those people are trained adaquately on how and when to use them. What is any different for the average gun enthusiast? I think that if you are trained and competent on the use of the firearm you chose to carry and you understand the ramifications of what if means to use your firearm then everything is alright.

    Sorry to go on a rant here. Just my $0.02
     
  4. Squid13

    Squid13 New Member

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    The government that governs least, governs best. The person most qualified to tell me how to live is me. People won't ever learn what freedom realy is as long as they believe in the safety of control. I don't need you to protect me from myself. I don't need you to protect me from you. You don't need me to protect you and so on.

    Places that have less drug laws have less violent crime. Places that have less gun control have less violent crime. We need to allow ourselves to be free to make our own decisions as long as we respect the same rights in others.
     
  5. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    BTW, a new edition of John Lott's "More Guns, Less Crime" will be coming out soon.
     
  6. atomsk

    atomsk New Member

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    All we have to do is look to the swiss on matters like this to see what should be
     
  7. ETH77

    ETH77 Premium Member

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    +1 to the Swiss. Having lived there 8 years, I've see up close and personal that having firepower doesn't mean crime.

    On a side note, the Swiss also voted out the "war on drugs." Drugs can be legally acquired by Swiss Citizens, or anyone with a valid Swiss ID. There are programs for addicts to get and keep jobs. The OD rate went to near zero. Best of all, 6 months after the introduction of the program, the petty crime rate dropped 70%. After a number of years the anti-drug groups got an initiative on the ballot to start the WOD again, it was defeated by a 4:1 margin.

    Now, back to our regularly scheduled firearms discussions.:D
     
  8. 73sbVert

    73sbVert Member

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    We've got to get through to the anti's. We have a fundamental difference of ideology here:



    THEY think that armed, we are all potential murderers. WE think that unarmed, we are all potential victims.


    The more people we can get to understand that gun laws only take away the guns from the good guys because the bad guys don't care, and will carry anyway, the better off we'll be.
     
  9. Narsil

    Narsil Premium Member

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    I disagree. I think they know full well that gun laws do not disarm criminals. I believe ant-gunners fall into two categories: the scared and the control freaks.

    The scared are people like my mother-in-law who are so absolutely terrified by the very thought of a gun that they don't want anyone to have them and the thought that her neighbor might have one just creeps her out. She doesn't go (in her mind) where the "criminals" are so it doesn't matter if they have them, as long as her neighbors don't.

    The control freaks (Pelosi, Brady, Kennedy, et al) can best be summed up in a paraphrased quote from I don't remember whom. "The honest man cannot be controlled by laws, only the criminal. Therefore, everything the honest man does must be criminalized so that he can be controlled."
     
  10. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    I run into a lot of the idealistic ones (college kids) that think we should all be disarmed because honest possession of firearms sends a "bad message" and promotes more violence. They somehow think that if we set some utopian example to the bad guys, they would all be shamed into giving up their evil ways and we could all join hands and sing Kumbiya. Following their specious logic, we honest, legal gun owners are just as guilty for violent crime as the bad guys :rolleyes:. Of course, these are the same people who blame society for everything instead of the individual and cast ballots for Obama. :eek: :D
     
  11. ETH77

    ETH77 Premium Member

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    When you are a "caring person" anything that looks like force or coercion is bad, but not as bad when the government is doing it. The laughable thing about it is that almost without exception, the worst, most horrible examples of the use of force or coercion are those of the government acting against its citizens.

    President Clinton and Attorney General Reno said that they had no choice — that the military-style raid on the home of the Miami relatives of Elián Gonzalez was necessary to enforce “the rule of law.” It kind of goes downhill from there, like to Waco and beyond.

    I don't doubt for a second that given a chance to show force, the current Democratic Party Nominee wouldn't hesitate.

    The full text for the middle paragraph is available on http://www.fff.org/freedom/0600a.asp
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2008
  12. Narsil

    Narsil Premium Member

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    ...and remember, all the guns at the Waco compound were completely legal and legally obtained.
     
  13. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    BTW, I am reading Lott's "Freedomnomics" now. Had to order it from B&N, unlike the lefty "Freakonomics" they were stockpiling last year.
     
  14. Soverign

    Soverign Premium Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong, and don't start a flame. Of all the CNN and news footage, I never saw a round coming out of the compound towards the police/military from the "sect" people.
    The one scene that comes to mind is when the commandos ladder up to the second story, enter into a window, then the last guy of the group tosses a flash bang in after his group. Then shots are fired between what I would assume to be his group and him.

    That whole incident still brings chills to my spine. Para military government groups with no regard for life, liberty, or law.

    Then there was also Ruby Ridge, where the FBI/ATF planed to shoot to kill from the start.

    But I digress and step down off my soap box. For now.
     
  15. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    DO NOT step off that Soap Box....

    We need more like you reminding everyone as often as possible about unconstitutional atrocities like these committed against "We The People" by our own elected government....
     
  16. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    I think it is more the cultural ideals that guide behavior than the hardware. The Swiss have one of the most racially homogenous countries in the world. They have a common ideal of behavior. They try to keep their country in order, and don't have an "All Welcome to come and Live here" policy. And they avoided the pointless WOD idiocy that plagues the US. They wisely set up liberal banking laws within a conscientious framework to suck some of the blood of commerce from other countries with rigorous laws, generating nice income without industrializing their small country.
     
  17. ETH77

    ETH77 Premium Member

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    Not exactly homogeneous, there are 4 national languages: German, French, Italian, and Romansch (a living Latin dialect). The inner Swiss Cantons are the poor relations and frequently get into large ;-) political battles with Zurich, Bern, and Basel.

    During the 70s there was an active separatist movement to create a new canton from Basel Jura, that subsequently won independence from Basel Land.

    It's not that hard to become a resident if they like what you bring to the party. At one time 20% of the populous was non-Swiss. That's when a lot of the xenophobic politics started. Imagine what the US would be like with a sudden influx of immigrants, not the 6% we have now, but 2.5x that. Then we'd see problems.
     
  18. TDR911

    TDR911 New Member

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    Try & tell that to all the hardened criminals out there. I respect everyones rights, They don't.