Mars Cetme- possible steal.

Discussion in 'Other Rifles' started by Buzz, Jun 6, 2007.

  1. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Finishing out my long guns I bought a Cetme today. This is the rifle that the G3, HK91 and other clones are based on. I have a gorgeous PTR91 but wanted a knock-around for rougher service, and a gun the I could put some work into, if need be. While searching for a nicely priced Cetme in the $500 to $850 range (pretty much the going range) I happened across a rarity that is being auctioned that doesn't seem to have attracted attention yet. This variation of the Cetme was made by Cetme for Mars Equipment supply years ago and is probably the most deisrable Cetme going. Guys who pay $2000 for one are thrilled and consider the price a steal. They can go for $3000 and more. This particular gun http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displ ... um=8034070 looks to be in darn nice shape and is worth far, far more than the $750 opening price. With five and a half days left till closing there are no bids yet. Maybe folks are standing off trying not to raise attention or get the bidding too high too early. If it goes for $750 it may well be a steal of epic proportions. I'm not going for it because I'm looking for a gun that I can knock around a bit, if need be, and this gun deserves to be a Safe Queen.

    Just a heads up that there might be some money to be made here, or a fantastic gun for the right collector, at a good or possibly fantastic price. At the very least it will be an interesting auction to watch.

    Buzz
     
  2. posterboy7

    posterboy7 New Member

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    My friend had a CETME, bought it new. The damn thing blew up on him. Seems this particular brand was assembled from used parts.

    Sounds like you know your different varieties of CETME, though.
     

  3. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Except for limited exceptions they are all made from used/surplus parts or new US parts. When they are imported into the US the receivers must be destroyed and replaced with US parts. Pursuant to section 922r (Federal law) the gun can only have ten import parts or less so US parts must be substituted and a whole game begins that is one of the most absurd bunch of crap that has been foisted on the shooting community to date.

    There are Cetmes and then there are Cetmes. When they are good they are very good. When they are bad they can be made better with a little work. And when they are very bad they are terrible. Much of the nasty reputation is not deserved. This gun has significant historical value (HKs are actually clones) and they can be wonderful shooters often significatly different (and arguably better) in terms of perceived recoil over guns like the HK.

    You need to know what you are doing when you buy one, and even then there is a certain degree of rolling the dice. This is the case with owning most foreign main battle rifles (MBR). Sometimes they take some work and can be hugely rewarding when they come around, or very expensive paper weights, or in your friend's case, a pyrotechnic display. I would bet dollars to donuts that I know what ammo he was using, a real no-no, that will potentailly shred any MBR from an FN/FAL to an AR. Never fire 7.62x51 Indian surplus. There are a few others, one other offered by Midway described as "7.62x51 NATO" Every instance that I know of a burst Cetme, and most other MBRs, involved Indian suprlus. It is also advisable to have a qualified smith go over every Cetme from top to bottom before firing checking things such as headspace. I will be setting up that examination with my smith tomorrow.

    The Mars Equipment gun was, I believe, manufactured entirely in Spain (where the Cetme/G3 was developed, by a German in the mid 50's) prior to 922r so the gun isn't a part gun as now required by law. It is pure, or in cigar vernacular, a "puro". The gun could easily fetch $3000, and at least $2500 unless some issue comes to light.

    Cetmes are an endangered species here in the US specifically named in every proposed ban. The fact that they are imports makes their future even more shakey as imports are the first to go with the US gun industry doing little to protect foreign maunufacturers, and in the case of 922r selling them out to protect home turf (some will argue). The price of Cetmes (and the US made PTR91) has recently risen drastically and will continue to do so. PTRs (another Cetme/G3 clone arguably better made than the HK91) that were going for $700 a year ago are now $1100 on up.

    Buzz
     
  4. aubie515

    aubie515 Premium Member

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    I had a Cetme that I bought and never fired, so I sold it to a friend. I tend to buy a lot of firearms and never shoot them. I'd say for the money they are nice battle rifles.

    The PTR91 is a nice rifle...I've heard they are better built than the original HK91. I owned an original HK91 years ago and can say that it was the worst firearm investment I ever made. I was very disappointed in how the rifle shot. At that time, everything was so expensive...mags were running $50ish...claw mounts were $450...etc etc.
     
  5. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Hey Aubie. I tend to shoot what I own, and if I don't shoot it I don't own it for long. I think recently my tenedency to sell a gun has changed tending towards keeping everything unless it's a dog.

    Back in the alte Eighties and early Nineties I had an HK93. I found it at my local range stuffed way back on a rack full of dust and gunk. I bought it for $450 (which was a darn good price even back then) and took it home and cleaned it up from top to bottom. The gun turned out to be a gem under all of the crap. I shot it and loved it for a good number of years and sold it for something like $1650 when I took a hiatus from shooting in 1994. Of course the timing was perfect :wink: Back in those "pre-Internet" days getting anything for an HK was pretty much reserved for the occasional gun show or the local HK dealer, who was a bit of a bandit. HK stuff was incredibly expensive and difficult to obtain. Today I can buy HK91 magazines for a buck a throw! The Internet has transformed shooting incredibly.

    Based on what I've seen I'd have to say that my PTR91 is a better built rifle than my old HK93. Just looking at the welds alone shows you that. Whether that is a superficial assessment is arguable. Of course the proof is in the pudding, so my real opinion of the PTR91 will come when I shoot it the first time this weekend. If it is anywhere near as good as my old 93 I will be one happy camper.

    I think that the interesting comparison will be between the PTR91 and the Cetme, an apples to apples comparision rather than the apples to oranges comparison between the 91 and the 93.
    Many have reported the recoil of the Cetme to be different with the Cetme a bit less mind-numbing and different in feel than the HK91.

    Buzz
     
  6. posterboy7

    posterboy7 New Member

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    I don't think my friend used the Indian ammo you mention, Buzz. He is pretty careful about ammo...well, at least now he is. I will have to ask him.

    He also didn't like the recoil compared to an AR, but those are apple and oranges.

    Doesn't Springfield Armory make a CETME clone?
     
  7. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    I spoke to them (JD) at PTR and he said that guns built like tanks had gone kerplooey thanks to the Indian surplus ammo. He gave me a list of ammo to avoid, at least with the guns that he builds.

    Yeah, the recoil difference between .223 and .308 is significant, to say the very least. Huge, in fact! That's probably why I always favored the HK93 in .223.

    Springfield did indeed sell a Cetme clone, the SAR 3 and Sar 8 along with the Fajen thumbhole stock after the 94 ban. They were produced in Greece on HK licensed equipment by Hellenic arms. They still pop up from time to time and are almost always a grand or more. I'm sure they will be getting more valuable. I considered getting one but went with the PTR91 instead and the Cetme for half the price.

    Caution, MBRs are addicting. When I pick one up I can almost feel how it must have been to depend one such a rifle, desperate men in depserate times, in desperate situations. These weapons are no-nonsense tools originally made to do one thing. There is a simplicity in that which I find to be very appealing.

    Buzz
     
  8. aubie515

    aubie515 Premium Member

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    There is a difference between the Cetmes and the 91s...the Cetmes came before the 91. I would say the SA versions were 91 clones.
     
  9. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    After the Cetme they are all clones of the Cetme. The HK91 and the SAR are co-clones :lol:

    Buzz