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M9 takes overall IDPA win, but may be the last for me

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G
Hi folks,

I was happy to keep reporting the progress that the S9/M9 and I were making in IDPA matches that I started shooting in Feb of this year. I loved the S9/M9 so much because of the design advantages over the other polymer guns, and feel they played a big part in me going from unclassified to master in 6 months. While I am happy to report an overall match win at my club and 5th SSP/MA at this past weekend's NC State IDPA Match (7 seconds off the Division Winner's pace using my S9 due to the M9 being INOPERATIVE), I fear it may be the last with the Steyrs.

First the good news: http://users.gloryroad.net/~idpa/8_07_05/Overall.htm

OK - so I was the only Master shooting that day :roll: - but I'll take it.

Here is where it turns ugly: http://users.gloryroad.net/~idpa/8_14_05/Overall.htm

I finished 32nd the very next weekend because my M9 failed to extract and double-fed about 10 times in the first 5 stages. On the last stage (stage 5), I finally switched to the S9 that was in my car as backup and won that stage by just under 2 seconds.

My M9 has about 5,000 rounds through it since May and up to that point had only ever had 3 FTE's through it. I was shooting UMC Green Box which caused 2 of those previous FTE's but I think something went fairly wrong to cause such consistent failure. The extractor moves with normal finger pressure and when comparing the 2 extractors (one in the M9 and one in the S9) there doesn't seem to be much if any difference in the wear (the S9 has about 3,500 rounds through it). I had removed the extractor in routine cleaning like I always do before a match, so I don't think it was me putting something back together wrong.

What has me most considering backing away from Steyr is the lack of support - both from the company and the aftermarket. I went to USASteyr.com to order a new extractor kit and found them OUT-OF-STOCK. The stories running lately of poor support and parts availability have me thinking that I will now just get an XD, Glock or something else to rely on as a competition gun. I have flown the flag pretty strongly but Steyr is just not getting involved in the US fast enough for me. No product/parts support and a dearth of aftermarket accessories (no fiber optic sights, trigger upgrades, etc.) have me just fed up.

FTE's seem to be the Achilles heel of the pistols and now that it has happened to me in a big way and put a damper on my competitiveness I'm not sure if I'll ever get the confidence back in these guns.

I was forced to use the S9 for this past weekend's NC State IDPA Match, and I think I did OK but it was always in the back of my mind to be prepared for a tap-rack-bang drill and I know that caused some hesitation in my reloads and transitions over all 13 stages.

I don't know how long it will take to get the M9 fixed, and frankly I haven't touched it since if a part is broken/worn, I have no idea where I'd get the replacement.

While I believe the design advantages of the S9/M9 make it a truly superior platform, I'm pretty bummed for the aforementioned reasons and am now cruising Gunbroker.com for a new SSP IDPA gun...

Jeff
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Darn....sorry to hear about your trouble with the M9. While it would be easy to say give the gun another chance after getting it repaired (whenever Steyr gets it's customer support operation back into operation in the U.S.), the issue regarding diminished confidence in the gun would be hard to overcome.

Good luck.
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J
I haven't had that problem with my Steyr, but I haven't shot it as much either. I do love my XD in IDPA though. Only bad thing is being stuck in ESP. It is nice being able to get aftermarket parts (love those Williams Firesights).
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jnclement said:
I haven't had that problem with my Steyr, but I haven't shot it as much either. I do love my XD in IDPA though. Only bad thing is being stuck in ESP. It is nice being able to get aftermarket parts (love those Williams Firesights).
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I used to report never having a problem with my Steyrs as well, even when others were saying that UMC ammo was giving them problems. It seems that the built-in Gremlins finally caught up with me :cry:

Perhaps I am being unfair and am just upset with my broken gun, as EVERYTHING mechanical will break at some point. It doesn't help though when the peanut gallery at my range keeps saying "Get a 'insert brand here'" when my gun jams.

Do you have a magwell on your XD? I can't imagine why a stock XD would make you HAVE to shoot ESP.

srfl - you're right, the confidence thing is the biggest hurdle. Double feeds are frustrating and the most confidence-detracting when gaming. I won't even get into what I'm thinking about carrying the Steyr anymore...

Jeff
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Here's the response I got from IDPA concerning the XD in ESP:

Sir,

The XD is considered an ESP gun only.

The Springfield XD seems to be very similar to the Glock but there are
some major differences. When you pull the trigger on a Glock, you are
in fact, cocking the striker about halfway. When you pull the trigger
on the XD, you aren't cocking the striker at all. Because of that, the
ATF considers this pistol to be a single action pistol. When the XD
first came out, Springfield called it a single action striker fired
pistol.

Because this pistol is considered a single action, it cannot be used for
Stock Service Pistol Division. It can only be used in Enhanced Service
Pistol Division. Glocks are classed with double action pistols because
of the fact that the trigger pull finishes cocking the striker.

Sincerely,
Sandra Tumbleson
IDPA Staff
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Silly, isn't it? In IPSC, the Glock and XD are in the same class. I think IDPA is splitting hairs on this one.

Think different ammo in your Steyr would help? I'm just shooting that $3.81 a box Blazer in all my pistols, and haven't had a problem.
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jnclement - thank a bunch for that info! I definitely don't want a gun that is ESP-only, it is nice to be able to shoot 2 classes - especially when all the REALLY good shooters are in ESP. IDPA rules are Draconian to put it kindly.

I've shot about 650 rounds of UMC before with only 2 FTE's, so I'm pretty sure that something has gone way wrong since I have not changed my maintenance routine in the past 5,000 or so rounds. I've shot my S9 for the last 2 weeks with no problems (knock on wood), but I do prefer the full grip and extra sight radius with my M9. I was originally going to swap extractors, but didn't get to do function testing before the matches so just left it alone.

I wonder when the parts situation will ever be settled, I am quite peeved. However, it's my own fault I didn't buy spares when they were in stock.

Jeff
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Jeff, Sorry to hear about your problems. I find it very interesting that some Steyrs seem to have built in problems and others can seem to go on forever with no issues at all. I wish I could find a reason for the seeming inconsistency. I have still have seen no major problems with either my wife or my gun. We are in our annual ramp-up for the Nationals and shooting abour 750 rounds each per week. 'Tis a puzzlement...
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Jng
You could always get a glock 34 with fiber optic sights....I'll sell you one cheap for about another week now...Okay just kidding. Somehow I don't think Paul would find that as funny as us. I have to admit I'm being stubborn for the moment and insisting that I can fix this thing, but what are you going to do with yours? Sell it? Try to trade it in? Cdnn was not jumping at the bit to trade in mine. trying to figure out what I should do too. Let me know your plans and we can brainstorm.

MT
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Also Jeff, since we all know you don't work....I'm going to the range tomorrow afternoon (Yeah I know I don't work either. What a slacker) if you would be interested in accompaning me and we can complain about how neither of our guns work and maybe fix something...Let me know or I'll call you.
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IDPASteyr said:
Jeff, Sorry to hear about your problems. I find it very interesting that some Steyrs seem to have built in problems and others can seem to go on forever with no issues at all. I wish I could find a reason for the seeming inconsistency. I have still have seen no major problems with either my wife or my gun. We are in our annual ramp-up for the Nationals and shooting abour 750 rounds each per week. 'Tis a puzzlement...
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I'm glad to hear that your wife is not giving you too much trouble either :lol:

Yeah, you know how enthusiastic I have been about Steyr since earlier this year so my disappointment is also that much greater.

Good luck at the nationals, I really wish I was going. Although now with my M9 in needing of repair it is somewhat fortunate. I hope you can get that "tactical" Steyr project off the ground. If you can get the factory behind it you can count me in on the first run.

Also, thanks so much for helping out Molly with her recent M9 trouble. She and her husband are good friends and actually bought the Steyr after shooting mine and suffering through my sales pitch. Talk about feeling guilty!

Jeff
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mtobias said:
Jng
You could always get a glock 34 with fiber optic sights....I'll sell you one cheap for about another week now...Okay just kidding. Somehow I don't think Paul would find that as funny as us. I have to admit I'm being stubborn for the moment and insisting that I can fix this thing, but what are you going to do with yours? Sell it? Try to trade it in? Cdnn was not jumping at the bit to trade in mine. trying to figure out what I should do too. Let me know your plans and we can brainstorm.

MT
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Mollie, I was typing my reply to IDPASteyr as you replied. You could *conveniently* leave Paul's tricked-out G34 in the glove compartment at work, I'll leave you an envelope and Paul can file for the insurance claim - everybody wins! :lol: j/k (I did a stint with State Farm years ago and insurance fraud is just plain WRONG)

I feel so bad about your problems out of the box with the M9. I can't believe Brian would not do the right thing considering the gun is brand new with a broken trigger return spring! Did he say they wouldn't do anything? I would really push for that or we will start a negative PR campaign, I'm surprised at CDNN.

I'm not sure what to do with mine yet. First I've got to diagnose the problem (it could really only be the 3 parts of the exactactor - plunger, spring or extractor itself) and then figure out where to get parts! Once I get that worked out we'll see. Until then I'll keep shooting the S9.

Are you going to Range 14 on Bragg? I don't think I can make it to the range in the morning but I may need to deliver some stuff to 2LT Eberle before he deploys in a couple weeks. Give me a ring...

Jeff
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My S9 has functioned flawlessly for about 300 rds. It does appear that some guns are just trouble prone. I didn't have a problem with confidence in my gun until reading about other proples' problems. Guess the only answer is to just keep shooting it and hope nothing goes wrong before the company gets it support up and running.
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C
SPHINX. That is what you should get. A Swiss made CZ.
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CGuns said:
SPHINX. That is what you should get. A Swiss made CZ.
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Wow CGuns, how fortuitous that you would suggest that. After jnclement just confirmed that the SA XD is an ESP-only IDPA gun, my number 1 choice for replacement is now a CZ P-01 (or SP-01 if I can get one). I raved about those on here before.

The Sphinx would be sweet, but that is just too rich for my blood at the moment. Someday...

Thanks

Jeff
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Jeff,
No, I'm going to KcKellers on Bragg. They don't let me play on Range 14 except for IPSC. Too bad you can't come though. Might get to see me finally get frustrated enough to throw my gun down range like I always say I'm gonna. Let me know if you're going to be in town though and I'll sneak out of work and we can go.
Brian didn't say he wouldn't exchange it, but he didn't say that he would either. He did hedge around the issue quite a bit. If I'm still having problems when I go tomorrow with new ammo I may have to call him and throw a McDonalds type fit to get my way. We'll see. I'd really like to be able to say that I fixed it though... Maybe then I can call Comptac and cry and see if they'll let me return my stupid cutom molded holster. probably not. If I find any parts I'll let you know.
Sphinx is a good brand? I've only ever seen one and I never knew anything about it. I'll still probably go glock though since I need all the break bresistance I can get evidentally....
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sources for Steyrs

Reading through the posts regarding CDNN not immediately offering to take care of things, which is disappointing, but so maybe a good thing they they will probably be out of the picture when their supply is exhausted, glad I decided to go with the A1 from Davidsons. The few reports I have read (involving pistols other than Steyrs) confirm that they do in fact stand behind their own distributorship warranty, offering immediate resolution on problems as soon as it is brought to their attention; heard of one case where they immediately shipped out a new firearm before even receiving the old one back.
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jng1226 said:
CGuns said:
SPHINX. That is what you should get. A Swiss made CZ.
Click to expand...
Wow CGuns, how fortuitous that you would suggest that. After jnclement just confirmed that the SA XD is an ESP-only IDPA gun, my number 1 choice for replacement is now a CZ P-01 (or SP-01 if I can get one). I raved about those on here before.

The Sphinx would be sweet, but that is just too rich for my blood at the moment. Someday...

Thanks

Jeff
Click to expand...

Why not just get a normal 75? They work. It is a proven design and arguably the most copied modern semi-auto design on the planet.
The P-01, I have heard hi-cap mag availability is dodgy. I did hear that the testing that the gun had to endure was extrodinary, but, I never heard what the actual tests were. I am in a bit of a situation myself. Most guns no longer "excite" me.
The Sig- Too boxy
The Glock- To plastic
The CZ- good, slim profile, nice metal frame, a little on the long slide and Eastern European manufacture is not the last word in class
The XD- I like the HS2000 from Croatia. Not the Springfield stamped version. The chances of drawing with a perfect grip to de-activate the grip beaver-tail safety is slim, in my book.

I could continue but I am sure you get the point. Let me know what you decide on. The CZ75 compact seems like a nice gun. The wait time on the Sphinx is pretty high, I do belive.
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Zastava has some really neat handguns. (Zastava, the Yugoslavian AK maker). They have one that appears to be a copy of the P226, but, it uses the same barrel steel as what is used in the PKM GPMG barrels and it has a "last 3 rounds remaining" indicator, which pricks you in the finger when you are down to the last 3 rounds.

Charles Daly imports it and I would have a problem owning a firearm that says Charles Daly on the side of it. High quality, but the name kills me.


http://www.pdmall.com is the best place to buy CZ. Best prices, certainly. I hear a lot of good things about them.

Too bad 10mm isn't more common. A Medium frame handgun in 10mm would interest me.

I am hard to please.
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The XD- I like the HS2000 from Croatia. Not the Springfield stamped version. The chances of drawing with a perfect grip to de-activate the grip beaver-tail safety is slim, in my book.
Click to expand...

That's a first. I've drawn mine hundreds of times, and have yet to fail to de-activate the grip safety. It's not really different from a 1911.
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This has some class, too bad it reflects light.
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