M9-A1 - more issues with (new) reloads UPDATED!

Discussion in 'Maintenance / Tweaks / Technical Difficulties / So' started by Gray_Wolf, Jul 9, 2006.

  1. Jul 9, 2006 #1
    Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

    235
    0
    0
    I had failures to extract problems with Titegroup powder (2-3 per a box). So I got an lb of Blue Dot powder to see if it will be any different (I wanted Power Pistol but the local gun store it out of stock). I used the same 138gr RN copper plated bullet and also had some 147gr FP copper plated as well.

    I was going to use 6.1gr of BlueDot, powder dencity must be off because my Lee Auto disk charged only 5.5gr

    -------

    So I shot 100 rounds of reloads though the gun; 50 with 138gr and 50 with 147gr same charge for both.

    First box (138gr): had about 2 Failures to Extract, AND about 4 or 5 Failures to feed. 8-O (never had any before) The OAL was 1.14in -- longer than the OAL of the Titegroup loads (1.10in)

    Second box (147gr): I think I only had 2 Failures to feed, don’t remember if I had any Failures to Extract but wouldn’t be more than 1. These loads had OAL of 1.15in.

    The first box might have been a little light; I had round (same as powder flakes) black ash-like residue on my arms which might’ve been unburned powder. I think it was happening less with 147gr loads but not sure. This is my first time using Blue Dot, so not sure if this is normal or not.

    I also had 3 failure to go into battery, at lest I noticed 3 ; at my range when I shoot I can see the back of the gun in silhouette and can’t tell if the slide is in or out of battery unless I lower the gun and take a better look at it. Which made me wonder if it happen more than 3 times and I just 'shot though it'… :?

    Next time I go to the range I will do a test with primed cases to see if the gun fires out of battery. The last thing I need is worrying about a KB. :?

    btw the gun has about 550 rounds though it right now.
     
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 9, 2006
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 9, 2006
  3. Jul 9, 2006 #2
    MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

    1,085
    5
    38
    believe bluedot has issues with leaving some unburnt powder.
    havent used it myself. definately slower burning powder than titegroup. workup the charge and see if you can get to

    for 147gr lead bullet out of lymans 48th manual
    bluedot
    charge start 5.1gr to max 5.9gr though they use 1.058 OAL
    for 147gr FMJ Speer start 5.3gr max 6.6gr 1.115" OAL
    Alliants data list 6.2gr max with 1.140" Hornady XTP 147gr

    lymans 48th manual little unusual imo.

    I have fed my gun 9mm with FMJ and JHP's from 115-147gr loaded out to 1.150" with no feeding issues except both my M9's choke on Hornady XTP's loaded longer than 1.120-1.125"

    147gr XTP max length 1.120" otherwise I hit rifling and the cartridge gets stuck.

    124gr XTP max 1.125".
    it could be different for others some could be tighter

    ftf? failure to feed or fire?

    I havent had good luck with Lee's recommended settings for autodisk. I just tune it till I get proper gr weight dropping and check it often. keep the hopper full and check the case to make sure the charge dropped looks right. make sure its not under or overfilling.

    did you check to see if the bullets could go out that far into the chamber? what size are those plated bullets? .3555 or .3560-.3565?

    9mm brass doesnt kb easily at all. then again you could always try to use 9x21mm load data for 9x19. id like to see that FTE. probably could if casing hugged chamber tight have heard it happen with some powders at brianenos.com forum with people using 9mm major loads.
     
    MrApathy, Jul 9, 2006
    MrApathy, Jul 9, 2006

  5. Jul 10, 2006 #3
    Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

    235
    0
    0
    I'm pretty sure the bullets are .355 ( http://www.frontierbullets.co.za/cmj.htm )

    failure to feed. I didn't have any failure to fire issues.

    Auto disk has beed pretty consistabt with other powders. I measured a charge from a dipper that came with Lee dies and it showed a light charge as well, the powder density must be off...

    I think OAL might have something to do with the gun not going into battery. I will check how well it chambers...

    It looks like the OAL was too long, since the same bullet with shorter OAL didn't have any feeding issues. Although WWB 115gr - which worded fine - is even longer IIRC ~1.16 but has more of a pointy shape where my 138gr bullets are fuller and more round.

    btw did you do any testing to see if Steyrs fire out of battary?
     
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 10, 2006
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 10, 2006
  6. Jul 10, 2006 #4
    MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

    1,085
    5
    38
    before seating long in a M9 its best to marker up or paint the bullet seat it long 1.150-1.169" dont need powder or primer and chamber it. if it doesnt go into battery completely dont force it just immediately extract it. seat it lower and lower.

    its possible to get the slide locked up with a bullet hitting the rifling.
    it can be a pita to get it moving again.

    look for rifling scrape marks on the bullet after ejecting.

    so far Hornady XTP's which have a tall .3555 shoulder and dont taper like ball FMJ have given me battery issues. those frontier bullets look like they could do the same.

    I can only seat XTP's 1.120-1.125" bullet weight makes a difference with XTP's lighter can go little longer but heavy needs to be shorter.

    havent had feeding issues just battery on XTP's loaded so long they go into rifling.

    no problems loading good FMJ ball bullets long or ball like JHP. most I have taken JHP out is 1.150" which is very long for JHP in 9mm. not every gun will eject JHP's long

    out of battery test yes they produce light and offcenter strikes.
    sometimes it just decocks the striker and sear. usually the gun will go into batter when you pull the trigger unless something is caught.

    out of battery the striker is not under as much tension from the sear.

    its possible to decock a steyr but I dont recommend it with a round in the chamber.
     
    MrApathy, Jul 10, 2006
    MrApathy, Jul 10, 2006
  7. Jul 11, 2006 #5
    bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

    1,791
    10
    38
    of all the issues you have going, kb shouldn't be one of them.

    like mr. a said, check for rifling marks on the bullet before you fire them.

    if there are no rifling marks, then the slide would either go into battery under the force of the firing pin spring and fire, or it would not fire at all.
     
    bigtaco, Jul 11, 2006
    bigtaco, Jul 11, 2006
  8. Jul 14, 2006 #6
    Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

    235
    0
    0
    OK I think I just found what caused the problem(s); the 138gr bullets I was using won't chamber when loaded to more than 1.1in. When Loaded to 1.45-1.15 the whole rim of the case sticks out when I drop a round in a chamber. Even with OAL of 1.1in it doesn't drop out freely when I tilt the barrel with a round in it upside down. I loaded some Winchester 147gr HP's to about 1.14 and they drop in AND out freely. This is obviously what caused the battery problems...btw they all chamber fine in my 92FS.

    The feeding problem only started when I loaded to 1.14in+. OAL of 1.1in didn't cause any feeding problems.

    Now I'm wondering if this somehow could've caused the failures to eject problems I was having?


    I know this is the first thing I should've checked :oops:
     
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 14, 2006
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 14, 2006
  9. Jul 14, 2006 #7
    MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

    1,085
    5
    38
    your not the first to have missed that :oops:

    it would be nice of handloading manuals emphasized checking whether the bullet will fit into the freebore.

    I need to make a post in ammo and reload section to potential M9 loaders on bullet profile and OAL.
     
    MrApathy, Jul 14, 2006
    MrApathy, Jul 14, 2006
  10. Jul 15, 2006 #8
    Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

    235
    0
    0
    Just found out something new; the Blue Dot loads (5.5gr behind a 138gr bullet) that were causing me grief were also underloaded :oops:

    Just took my Beretta 92 to the range along with the ammo that that turned out to be too long for my M9-A1... In the fist magazine the gun jammed a couple times (that was the first time my 92FS ever jammed in almost 3,000) so I thought the maybe the OAL - 1.135 was too long, but still decided to try the other box (6.1gr of BlueDot behind a 138gr bullet with even longer OAL of 1.45-1.5) and 100 rounds of these functioned perfectly. Than I finished the first (underloaded) box which wouldn’t cycle the slide reliably causing many feeding and a couple extractions problems.

    So now I know the feeding and battery problems with my Steyr were my fault. :oops:

    Still not sure about the ‘original’ Titegroup loads that gave about 2 FTE per box (worked fine in my 92FS)... :?
     
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 15, 2006
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 15, 2006
  11. Jul 16, 2006 #9
    Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

    235
    0
    0
    saw your post in the reloading section and just wanted to say that 1.1max OAL is for 138gr RN bullet.

    Before I got my Steyr I used 124gr RN frontiers in my Beretta which have a diffirent profile; more pointed shape....I think the max OAL would vary with diffirent bullets.
     
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 16, 2006
    Gray_Wolf, Jul 16, 2006