Llama .45?

Discussion in 'Anything Else' started by Buzz, Oct 24, 2007.

  1. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    I was picking up a Kel-Tec PF9 and this little Llama Micromax45 subcompact jumped up and said "buy me too!". I put it on layaway. It's a cute little doublestack 10 round 1911 about pocket size (cargo pant size) and is unfired. I know tha Llama has a hit or miss reputation, but my research shows any common fixes for this gun to be easy ones. Anyone have any experience with this gun?

    http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6261/dscf6956ik8.jpg

    BTW, the Kel-Tec is gonna be great.

    Buzz
     

  2. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    Hey Buzz,

    I thought you posted a few weeks back that you were finished buying guns for awhile......

    :roll: :roll:

    Me 2.....

    :wink: :wink:
     
  3. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    You will definitely love that PF-9. I got mine after Doc Chronos tried one out first and I dumped my P-11 and its 99-lb. hammer spring. The PF-9 shares the same trigger as the P-3AT but of course with the 9mm vs. the .380 round. My PF-9 is my AmEx pistol, as in "Don't leave home without it!" So slim and light nobody knows but me.

    You probably already saw this comparison of the two pocket pistols I wrote: Tale of 2 pocket pistols

    That little pocket Llama .45 looks like a Para Hawg, but I bet it cost a lot less. Wanta say what it cost? I've got a bit of money saved up and am still dithering over whether to buy a M9-A1 or Spectre .45 or EAA .38 Super or... :mrgreen:

    Be sure to give us a range report with that little Llama. She sure looks like a keeper if she will shoot.
     
  4. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Babj, every gun that I buy I say that it will be my last. I figure someday I'll be right.

    The PF9 is ridiculously slim. It's hardly there, but eight rounds of 9mm is a good amount of firepower for such a small package. It's so light, slim and small that I was questioning its quality, but after spending some time with it the quality becomes apparent. I will be shooting it next week.

    As to the Llama, thanks Netfotoj. As luck would have it I had spent a good amount of time at the 1911 site and it was quite useful. While there wasn't much on my particular Llama I did learn enough to deal with any problems with some easy fixes. The major problem seems to be with the magazines and the feed ramp. I've seen suggestions that a Wolffs +10 spring will help feeding. Also a good feedramp polish seems to do wonders. I've also heard reference to breachface polishing, but I've never done onr. When guys have had problems with the gun the easy fixes have been enough that guys rely on them for CCW. The gun does indeed resemble the Warthog, a gun that I've admired for some time. My understanding is that the Warthog has some problems, but at least this gun has easy fixes for most of what can be wrong. The gun is unfired so I know that it isn't a bad gun being passed on. On the downside aprts could be an issue but there is a seller in Spain who can supply them.

    The gun cost me $270 which is about right considering it is unfired. There aren't a lot of them available and this one was available without requiring shipping and a transfer fee. It wasn't quite an impulse buy as I actually slept on it for 24 hours.

    Buzz
     
  5. DocChronos

    DocChronos Premium Member

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    Buzz--

    Here is a link with a short video about the PF-9: http://www.gunblast.com/Kel-Tec9mm.htm

    I have run several magazines through mine without a problem. It has a snappy recoil, but is easily manageable. Mine is in my back pocket most of the time. It disappears with little more to show than a lumpy pocket. If I have to go really deep, I drop my NAA .32 ACP in my back pocket.

    Let us know how it goes ...

    Doc
     
  6. luvmy40

    luvmy40 Member

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    Buzz,
    A buddy of mine has that Llama "Hawg" as he calls it. He swears buy his. I'll talk to him about any particulars to look for next time I see him. I love my Llama "Commander"($200) and wouldn't trade it for a $1000 SA or Kimber.
    I would beef up the recoil spring and add buffers. I went with a 20# recoil spring and full length guide rod in mine. The stock Llama springs tend to be a little wimpy for such a beefy slide. $0.02
     
  7. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Thanks! I've heard that about the recoil spring and you confirm it for me. I'll definitely do that. If is a beefy "little" gun. If you talk to your friend please ask him if he has had good reliability with fully loaded mags.

    Buzz
     
  8. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    I took delivery of the Llama yesterday. Overall I'm pleased. The gun was sold as "unfired" but has clearly seen some use, but as the gun is still very tight I suspect not all that much. I suspected that might be the case and based my purchase on that assumption. The gun has potential.

    Once I've test fired the gun it will go off to my smith for a trigger job. The pull is heavy, around eight pounds, I'd guess, has a bit of take-up, and is gritty with some side-to-side play. I may have a skeleton tigger installed if the cost isn't too high. The gun should respond well to a trigger job hopefully bringing the pull down to about 3.5 pounds.

    The thumb safety is very stiff and some polishing to the area that contacts the plunger has helped greatly. The smith can probably improve this as well. Right now, as I said, the gun is very tight, and I think five or six hundred rounds should allow me to take it to the smith with an accurate assessment of what needs to be done. If the gun proves itself I may have the sights replaced which will require the front sight (pinned from underneath) dovetailed. While the gun is a doublestack .45, ten rounds, it does have a lot of potential for carry, but has a long way to go to prove itself.

    Buzz
     
  9. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Saw an almost-new-looking Llama .45 IX-C at a gunshop today. Bore was nice and shiny and appeared unused, action is tight and the trigger was an absolute delight, that proverbial glass-rod breaking. And a small rod at that! I'm guessing it was no more than 3 lbs. but I didn't weigh it.

    Tempting but decided to research it a bit first. At least it fits my budget at only $359. This shop will negotiate so I'm positive I can get it for less than that, but didn't try to haggle today. I'm guessing I can get it for $325-335 OTD.

    Fits my "Baddest Pistol" criteria with a double-stack 13-round mag and I don't have a .45 ACP pistol, so...

    I googled it and found some people say the IX-C is a great pistol, others not. One suggested any Llama should be shot first before buying as the company had a lot of quality control issues before it went out of business. Read good things about it on the M1911 Pistol Forum.

    Read that it will accept both Para Ordnance mags with a minor mod for the mag release and Colt double-stack mags without mods. Also found a site for factory Llama mags for $45 that says "No more are coming into the country so order now." You might want to check that out, Buzz.

    The shop has a range nearby so I'll go back next Friday after work and see if it's still there and if so, shoot it.

    Anybody with Llama .45 experience, feel free to chime in. :mrgreen:
     
  10. bmitchell

    bmitchell Premium Member

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    My dad had a Llama (Max I believe) back in the day, and I remember thinking that something about it looked a little odd. Don't remember what or why. It's been a good while, but it seems like it may have had a crack in the frame and he was going to try welding it back together.
    I remember nothing else about it.
     
  11. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Netfotoj, the Llama sems to be a lightning rod for opinion, some declaring it a POS, while others finding good dependable guns. There's reasons for that. Llama has put out differing quality guns over the years at different times with older guns seeming to be better and the very last one made being equally desirable. Right before Llama went out of business they tried one last ditch and brought in a team of smiths/engineers to get it right, or at least this is what has been relayed to me. It was too little too late.

    Also, more than a few of the bad opinions seem to come from those people who have never so much as even held one, the typical Internet Cliff Klavins who once heard something about that from their best friend's sister's cousin's barber's brother-in-law, the same drone that gets passed in again and again in lieu of and actual experience and knowledge.

    Buzz
     
  12. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Finally found a decent photo of the IX-C model Llama .45 ACP, 5.125" barrel, 13-round magazine, black finish, 3-white-dot sights. Looks just like the one I saw.

    [​IMG]

    Found this info on Llama Large Frame/Small Frame Series
     
  13. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    I do recall the model with the ventilated rib on top of the slide.

    One thing to keep in mind with the Llama, the interchangeability with the milspec 1911 is only partial. There is a list at the Llama section at the 1911 site.

    BTW, I think that a skeletonized trigger is going to be part of any trigger fix on a Llama. A buddy of mine from Texas who is a competition shooter and 1911 fanatic was in town this week visiting when I picked up the Llama. He went over the gun from top to bottom. This guy spends up to five grand on the 1911s that he shoots and is about a knowledgeable as they come when it comes to the 1911. His major concern was the trigger but was confident that a smith could make it very nice. There were also a number of aspects of the gun that impressed him despite considering the Llama to be about as desirable as a toothache considering the guns that he shoots. As to the doublestack, with my hands it isn't an issue and he felt that the gun, if reliable, would be suitable for carry. He's a firearms instructor and runs those tactical courses, so I take what he says as coming from someone with an informed opinion.

    Buzz
     
  14. heavymetalmachine

    heavymetalmachine New Member

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    I had a double stack Llama way back in the day. I got it new shot a box through it and traded it in on my Rugar single six .22 mag.
    The grip was to big and at the time I had a Colt 1911..
     
  15. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    The one I'm looking at does not have the ventilated rib on top of the slide. It looks exactly like the one in the photo above with one important exception: It has the skeletonized trigger and I came real close to buying it on the spot. When I cocked and snapped it the first time I was amazed. Crisp, clean break and couldn't be over 3 lbs. Nicest single-action trigger I have ever snapped, bar none.

    My plan was to go back today and cycle a few rounds through it to see if it is accurate and also to see if it will handle hollow-points. The feed ramp looked as if it has already been polished and that's one of the failings or common fixes cited on the 1911 site about Llamas.

    But I had to take my wife to the airport this morning to go see our new granddaughter in Pittsburgh and when I called the gun shop this afternoon they were almost at closing time, 2. So I'll have to go one evening next week.

    If she shoots as good as she looks and feels, she's mine. :mrgreen:
     
  16. bmitchell

    bmitchell Premium Member

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    I know it's been a while since this thread was still alive, but I talked to my dad a while back and found out what's what.

    Apparently his Llama did NOT have a cracked slide, that was a Helwan. The Llama was apparently the best fitting grip of any handgun he'd had, and I still don't know why he sold it.

    That is all.

    Ben