Interesting Range Report M9

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by Guest, May 11, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've been sitting on the recently arrived M9 from CDNN, waiting on the ammo to arrive and for a 'quiet' day where I could enjoy the moment with the M9.

    I awoke this morning, saw that it was raining and cleared out my schedule and headed to The Firing Line in Aurora. There I had the entire range to myself for 1.5 hours. Nice eh? :wink:

    Here's what I shot and I did have something happen that needs clarification. Additional comments on the pistol are also welcome.

    Lancer 147gr FMJ, 50 rounds.
    Lancer 124gr FMJ, 125 rounds.
    Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P JHP's, 100 rounds.
    WWB 115gr, FMJ, 50 rounds.
    Total rounds= 325

    This M9 is SO smooth! It was so easy to shoot.

    1) I had three light primer strikes from the Lancer. Otherwise the Lancer was a pleasure to shoot. I had SECOND STRIKE capability on each of the three light primer hits. I thought the M9 didn't have that capability? Thoughts?

    2) Every other round of ammo fed and fired beautifully from the ten and fourteen round mags.

    3) I experienced A LOT of difficulty with the trapezoidal sights. I was shooting high on virtually all of my shots. I finally went down to my knee with my elbows on the metal waist high counter and did a little better. PLEASE, anyone with suggestions on the trap sights and how to adjust? :?

    Other than the shooting high, I liked the M9 and think it puts away a lot of the other DAO pistol I have shot. If I didn't have the Kahr PM9, I'd call up CDNN for one of the last of the S9's.

    The M9 shot really well with all the ammo. The Lancer was very smooth and so was the WWB. I liked the Speer Gold Dot 124 +P's and especially the price of $119.00 for 500 rounds delivered. I will be loading this round up for my CCW choice.

    If you experienced folks could offer some suggestions re: the trap sights, I am all ears (eyes).

    Did I say I like this M9! :wink:
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No one could comment re: the high shots with the new grip and trap sights? :?

  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    While I don't consider the Steyr trigger DAO when compared to a real DAO trigger. I'm glad you had a good time with it. I'm considering getting one for myself to complement my S9 though I'm not sure if I can justify another 9mm
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    How are you aligning the sights? Vertically just align them like you would three-dots, top of the front blade even with the rears.

    Kinda funny that you're shooting high because at first I had problems with shooting low!
  5. Flashpoint

    Flashpoint New Member

    Are you putting the sights on the target or at 6 O'clock?

    Your say you had 2ed strike, that's interesting. I have never had a round not fire so I haven't been able to test that.
  6. turbodude

    turbodude Guest

    POA is direct POI, so put the triangle on the target, and line up the two sides
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks, I will cover the center of the target with the full triangle. :wink:

    Does anyone think the grip angle could have affected my aim? Right before shooting the M9, I was practicing with my PM9 and pretty much was level with the center of the target. I did notice that shooting the M9 felt a 'little different'. Perhaps this 'difference' might take some getting used to. :?
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yes, second strikes on what felt like weak primers. Only three out of quite a lot. All I had to do was pull the trigger a second time and bam! Like my Sig P239, where I could pull again on a bad primer strike.

    I had thought second strikes didn't happen with Steyrs. :?
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Someone else recently reported about shooting low. I posted this reply which may or may not be helpful for you to determine your POI relative to your POA:

    "For me it was a matter of understanding the sight picture with the unique Triangle/Trapezoid sights. I have seen several posts about Point-of-Aim (POA) vs Point-of-Impact (POI) but I think this varies by individual considering differences in grip, trigger technique, etc.

    Have each of your fired both from a stable rest? When first doing so be sure to fire groups (4-5 rounds at least) and concentrate on the sight picture you are using, i.e. tip of triangle even with top of rear trapezoid, tip of triangle underneath POI vs. on top of POI, etc.

    In doing this you should be able to find where your POI is. It may be different between guns and shooters because of the aforementioned variables. "

    Furthermore, when shooting from a supported position I try to mimick my grip and normal Isoscoles upper body stance so that the POA/POI tranlates back to free hand shooting.

    Regarding the light primer strikes, in just about 1,000 rounds of Lancer 147gr I haven't had one misfire through the S9. However, I have had 3 light primer strikes with the same ammo and only 300 rounds on my Sig P228. The Sig just also had 2 light strikes on WWB 115gr, which I have NEVER had a misfire with any gun in about the last 4,000 rounds - so I am tending to think it is my Sig that needs some new parts after 12 years, although it only has about 3,000 rounds through it.

    I find it really curious that you can get a second strike on your Steyr. I dry fire my S9 A LOT, and I have to retract the slide every time to reset the trigger. Weird.

  10. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    yes i could see going from one gun too the more angled steyrs putting one high.
    shoot from the bench to get used to sight picture.
    try shooting the steyr then the kahr and see if you shoot the kahr low.
    but mostly just shoot it a lot :p
  11. FWF

    FWF Guest

    Point of impact:
    Technique isn't the only variable; there will also be differences among the guns. My M9, with the tops of the sights on the same plane, will place the group a couple of inches above the tip of the front sight. If you cover the target with its front sight you'll get a very high group. I happen to be quite content with it as is.
    The grip angle would tend to make the gun point higher than your other guns, so I guess it'd be possible that, if you're not being real careful with the sight picture, the front sight may be climbing a bit in the rear, which could produce high hits.
    If you bench test the gun and find the sights to be in order, you may find that it'll just take a few more practice sessions for everything to fall into place.

    Second strikes:
    I don't really see how it could happen unless something is out-of-spec in your gun. Are you sure the striker actually dropped the first time on those three rounds? Is it possible the trigger wasn't fully reset, either from an internal malfunction or from you insufficiently releasing the trigger between shots?
  12. jnclement

    jnclement Guest

    I had to do the six o'clock hold with my traps (M9). The easiest thing I found to fix that was to put on 3 dot night sights. I did ok shooting IDPA with the traps (M40) though, so who knows.
  13. uncle_walty

    uncle_walty Member

    The trap sights look different but don't function any different than traditional sights. I place the front triangle in between the rear sight and line up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight. / /\ \ The tip of the triangle front sight is the POA and idealy the POI will be right at the tip or just slightly above. I don't like having the sight or any other part of my gun cover what I want to shoot. I want to see what I'm shooting. Especially if it is moving. If your groups are tight and consistent, I think you've found your natural grip for the pistol. If the POI doesn't line up with the POA than I believe you need to adjust your sights. My Steyrs tend to shoot low for me. Unfortunately, Steyr doesn't offer different height rear or front sights to allow me to adjust the elevation. If you reload your own you can try to adjust the load or try different factory loads to affect POI but not alway feasible and usually PIA. Steyr's pistols will never take off until Steyr provides better support for their pistols. Ruger sent me a higher rear sight just for the asking. That's customer service and support.

    I'm curious about your "second strike" capablity. Not mechanically possible if you've pulled the trigger far enough back to release the catch and firing pin the first time. Pulling the trigger only a second time will not reset the firing pin and catch. Did you short cycle the slide to check your dud round after the first strike? I think it only takes about 1/2" stroke on the slide to reset the trigger. My Steyr trigger sometimes doesn't give a clean break and will have some trigger travel after the initial takeup. The final break sometimes takes a heavier than normal pull. Maybe that is making you think it didn't fire the first time. Curious.

    Welcome to the Club.
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The second strike capability on the M9? Mine doesn't have that function.

    M9 is just like a glock or XD, no second strike. If you have a dud round, you have to manually cycle the slide to a new round. My 229 DAK is multistrike capable, and you can pull it as many times as you need to get the round off.

    I was shooting really off when I first trip to the range with the M9. I noticed I have to squeeze the trigger at the crease of the first join, not the pad, to shoot accurately.

    Speaking of sights, anyone know of a compatible NS that will work with the M9 without changing the POI?
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What occurred is this: I was taking my 'normal' trigger pull on the target when I pulled back the trigger and 'nothing happened'. But the trigger came back and it appeared as if the striker 'did its thing'. Startled, I glanced down at the pistol, looked at it while pointing it downrange, finger off the trigger. I then set up in position to fire again, gained the target, and once again pulled the trigger. Bam!

    Being that I'm new to the pistol, I tried to 'pay attention' and that's what I observed and experienced. I will pay even more attention if in fact this does occur again. :?

    Other than this (3x) and getting used to the trap sights, I enjoyed shooting the M9 a lot.
  16. Flashpoint

    Flashpoint New Member

    Did you actually feel/hear the striker hit?

    It kinda sound like a problem I had when I first started shooting the Stery. I would pull the trigger and nothing would happen, then I would look at the gun, grip it again, pull the trigger and BANG.

    I figured out that when that happened (it happen 3 or 4 times) trigger was resting right under my end knuckle; this was causing the safety button not to be suppressed enough to let the trigger trip the sear. When I would regrip the gun I would put my finger a little further in whick would press the button down far enough to make the gun fire.
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That's a very good observation. So you're saying that I didn't have good 'contact' with the safety that's on the trigger itself? I could have pulled the trigger from the 'side' and not from the center? I didn't hear the striker but I 'assumed' it. I wasn't really paying any attention so to speak. Plus I had on ear plugs and muffs. :wink: Some of this is making more sense if the above was the case.
  18. BurningDog

    BurningDog New Member

    If it happens again, eject the round and see if there is a strike, light or otherwise, on the primer.
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Nice report Climb14er. THe sights may take some time getting use to. We'll se when I get my M-9. I have pretty large hands, so maybe its a blessing in disguise that I'm getting an M-9 isntead of the S-9. (Trying to make myself feel better).

    Where do you shoot? I noticed you're in Denver. I'm in Lone Tree, near Highlands Ranch and usually shoot at the Firing Line in Aurora.
  20. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    Hmmmm, Aurora Summit steakhouse, good chunks of dead cows, HMMMMMMMMMM =P~

    never knew there was a gun range there.

    ANYWAYS back to steyrs and second strikes...