I'm going to California in Jan. I have a few questions.

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by midtnshooter, Nov 17, 2007.

  1. midtnshooter

    midtnshooter Premium Member

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    Hey All,

    I live in Tennessee and will be going to California for two weeks in January. I have a TN CCW and want to know something about the CA laws.

    1) What handgun restrictions (I know max.10 rnd mags) are there?
    2) What's the best way to ship (From/To FFL) ?

    Is there a forum detailing the whole process?


    Thanks,

    MTS
     

  2. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    Sorry for the double-tap.
    Also, http://handgunlaw.us
    The previous gold standard , packing.org, has sadly fallen on hard times and should be avoided, in my opinion.
     
  3. paradox

    paradox New Member

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    Aside from not having any mags with a capacity over 10 rounds, make sure any pistol you bring isn’t an “assault weapon.” That means it isn’t listed by name or has certain “evil” features.

    Named pistols:
    (1) UZI.
    (2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
    (3) The following MAC types:
    (A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
    (B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
    (C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
    (D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.
    (4) Intratec TEC-9.
    (5) Sites Spectre.
    (6) Sterling MK-7.
    (7) Calico M-950.
    (8) Bushmaster Pistol.

    “Evil features” for pistols:
    (4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
    detachable magazine and any one of the following:
    (A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
    forward handgrip, or silencer.
    (B) A second handgrip.
    (C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
    encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
    without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the
    barrel.
    (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
    outside of the pistol grip.
    (5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
    capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.



    If you're only going to be here for two weeks, I wouldn’t ship your handguns. I would bring them with you, unloaded and in a locked case. It’s fine to drive or fly with your pistols so long as they are in a locked case (and in the case of flying, you need to inform the airline/TSA and put the gun and ammo in your checked luggage).

    Speaking of transport, while traveling in California pistols need to be unloaded and in a locked container. Unloaded means no loaded magazine inserted or round chambered, it is ok to have loaded mags outside of the gun. A locked container could be anything from a backpack with the zippers locked together with a luggage lock on up. Trunks count as a locked container, but glove compartments and center consoles don’t.

    Lastly, your CCW in invalid here :(
    California doesn’t have CCW reciprocity with any other state.

    For more California related gun info, check out http://www.calguns.net
     
  4. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    So....


    ...whats it like?



    ....Living under the occupation of Kalifornia????



    ...best keep your papers in order!!!!



    :wink: :wink:
     
  5. midtnshooter

    midtnshooter Premium Member

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    Wow, so much information and so many rules. Basically if I am correct, I can bring it, but leave it in my hotel room. Hmmmmm, I think Kali has won this battle. I would bring it if I could carry it :( . Flying with it for on room protection, with the thought of my pistol "getting lost in flight" makes it Not worth it.

    Thank you all for the info (411 for the hood). :D

    Take Care,
    MTS
     
  6. paradox

    paradox New Member

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    Hotel rooms and even camp sites are considered your domicile under California law and are covered under our version of the castle doctrine.

    You could ship it through FFLs, but that gets expensive rather quick with pistols requiring overnight service. I wouldn’t worry too much about it getting lost in the airline shuffle. You are actually more likely not to lose you baggage if you have a pistol checked in it because the airline and TSA take extra care tracking such luggage ;)
     
  7. xjrat

    xjrat Premium Member

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    Stay AWAY from KALIFORNIA... But if you MUST come bring a LOT OF MONEY,
    nothing is cheep. Traffic is bad every where people can be rude, in the cities
    there are a LOT of people.
    unfortunatly your security isn't a high priority to the state because you
    can't carry here. I think it's still a county by county ccw here and if you have one
    in one doesn't mean you can carry in another. It's next to imposible in my area
    to get a ccw it coast alot and you HAVE to have a GOOD reason like someone is
    stalking me now and has beat me up 10 times and shot at me as well or I own a
    jewlery store and carry $100,000 in jems on me every day or I will buy you donuts
    everyday for 10 years... and then you still aren't guaranteed to get one. IT SUCKS :x

    Where are you going? Northern Cal or So Cal. Los Angeles and Disneyland or San Fran?
    It is beautiful in most places but it takes money to live or visit here. There are a few of
    us sane steyroids here just let us know where your goin and maybe you could hook up with
    one of us to shoot or something. Also ask away about stuff there are a lot of things that can
    make your stay eaiser if you know what to do.
     
  8. paradox

    paradox New Member

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    A California CCW is good anywhere in the state, so someone from the backwoods where CCWs are almost "shall issue" can get a CCW and carry in the heart of San Francisco, "no issue" territory.
     
  9. West01

    West01 New Member

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  10. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Howdi Paradox

    Eeeehhh.. My friend ...If you get caught in the South of Market in S.F.or anywhere in the Financial District with a California CCW... you will learn really quick that it is not worth the paper that it written on,,, Get a very good lawyer ( and a lootttt of money) because Kamela Harris will throw the book at you. You also will earn what the expression "Pit Bull" really mean. Lets put it this way, the Kalifornia guns laws are very vague ...and it is on purpose a double edge sword. Just for example, check the definition of a lock container or what is a loaded Fire-Arms on the CDoJ web site. It gives the prosecutor a lot of latitude.... A warning to the wise... :wink: :wink:

    Kalifornia is a beautifull place but I'm still not sure where it fit on the map of the USA ????? Remember the best and first friend you make when you move to this state.....is your attorney. Litigation is a state sport here.

    Cheers!

    :D

    West01
     
  11. West01

    West01 New Member

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    :shock: OOps! My apologies for the double post.....My bad...

    :oops:

    West01
     
  12. ChillyWilly

    ChillyWilly New Member

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    I agree with West.....it's way too vague and for a couple of weeks really not worth all the trouble.....especially since its such a hit and miss with peoples political views. Its literyaly like Russian Roulette.....you could pull a cop/da/judge who is relaxed on law biding citizens or one who is out to make a name for themself and will make an example out of you....hell we can't even carry a billy club in the car....even a baseball bat, you better have ball and glove to go along with your story if you club the crap out of someone even in self defense....it's really no joke out here....
     
  13. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    Remember that wall that used to separate West and East Germany?

    Well, they took it down all right....

    ....and moved it to Kalifornia.......

    I don't understand anyones desire to live in this most oppressive territory....
     
  14. West01

    West01 New Member

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    True.....absolutely! :lol: :lol: But I have to convince my wife :lol:


    West01
     
  15. midtnshooter

    midtnshooter Premium Member

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    All,

    Thank you for the info. I decided not to shoot for those two weeks.

    Thanks,
    MTS
     
  16. paradox

    paradox New Member

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    Sigh. The law isn’t that hard to understand, nor are the firearm portions vague. If you have a valid CA CCW, you can carry anywhere in the state, and you won’t be arrested and tried. Even in SF. Plenty of people who have a CCW from a rural county carry in out of county major metropolises. No one has been arrested and forced to pay money for a lawyer.

    As for law and case law...

    CCW:
    12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
    he or she does any of the following:
    ...
    12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
    following:
    ...
    (j) The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
    of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to
    carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3
    (commencing with Section 12050)


    Locked container:
    CA PC§ 12026.1
    (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
    container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
    combination lock, or similar locking device


    Loaded firearm:
    http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf
    The term "loaded" has a commonly understood meaning: "to put a load or charge in (a
    device or piece of equipment) a gun" or "to put a load on or in a carrier, device, or
    container; esp: to insert the charge or cartridge into the chamber of a firearm." (Webster's
    New Collegiate Dict. (1976) p. 674.) Under the commonly understood meaning of the
    term "loaded," a firearm is "loaded" when a shell or cartridge has been placed into a
    position from which it can be fired; the shotgun is not "loaded" if the shell or cartridge is
    stored elsewhere and not yet placed in a firing position. The shells here were placed in a
    separate storage compartment of the shotgun and were not yet "loaded" as the term is
    commonly understood.
    There is nothing in Health and Safety Code section 11370.1 which indicates the
    Legislature did not intend to use the term "loaded" in its commonly understood meaning.


    As for bats, clubs, et al, that is quite a fucked up bit of law. The short answer is to never carry any bludgeoning weapon with the intent to defend yourself with it. The state is ok with stabbing/slicing weapons so long as they aren’t made to look like something other than a stabbing weapon, and are either folded, worn openly, or hung from your belt. CA PC§12020 is one of the silliest laws I’ve come across...


    THE PEOPLE v. ERNESTO ARNOLDO RUBALCAVA
    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/data2/cal...es/S081209.PDF
    Even though section 12020 may seem overbroad as a matter of common sense, we will not find it unconstitutionally overbroad without some concrete impairment of constitutionally protected conduct.

    Although we conclude that section 12020 is not unconstitutionally vague or overbroad, we echo the concerns over the breadth of the statute raised by Rubalcava. As written, section 12020, subdivisions (a) and (c)(24) may criminalize seemingly innocent conduct. Consequently, the statute may invite arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement not due to any vagueness in the statutory language but due to the wide range of otherwise innocent conduct it proscribes. Indeed, the Legislature suggested this very possibility. “Proponents of this bill would possibly suggest that everyone—peace officers, prosecutors, judges, and juries—knows what is considered ‘bad’ carrying of a concealed dirk or dagger, cite Grubb (supra), and argue that is the protection against possibly overzealous use of the Penal Code proscriptions on such conduct?”
     
  17. mrboma

    mrboma Member

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    Cali in Jan

    Mid,
    If you have to shoot while your here and end up in Nor Cal drop me a pm.
    And if you do make it this way, I would love to see your IGB barrel and comp.
    Safe travels regardless,
    Mike
     
  18. paradox

    paradox New Member

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    If you CA travels take you near Yosemite, drop me a line and I can get you a shooting fix at my local range. ;)