IDPA: Kahr PM40 vs 1911 .45

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by ThaiBoxer, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    Had to test the 1911 today, otherwise it would have been Steyr vs PM40.

    So I shot my 1911 and the Kahr in IDPA today, total of 18 shooters. The Kahr time finished 10 seconds ahead of the 1911, though the 1911 took Low Points Down (best accuracy) for the match, Kahr came in 3rd for fewest points down. Overall I finished about middle of the pack. I screwed up in seating mags for both guns a few times, just trying to go too fast, and ended up tap-racking more than I care to admit. I think it was user error each time.

    We had some long shots this match, about 22 yards or so. Several guys were surprised that the Kahr did so well, and wanted to look over the pistol.

    It's a good piece.

    Ben
     
  2. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    TB:
    Have you used the Steyr before in IDPA?
     

  3. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    that's interesting. i've always heard the kahr was a pretty short range weapon in that group size widened considerably beyond 15 yards.

    i had quite an interesting experience shooting a friends p40 covert. (i think that's what it was)

    after getting used to the trigger, i decided that a 5 shot 25 yard group test was in order.

    first shot- dead on.

    second shot- touching the first. "this thing is really accurate!!!"

    third through fifth shots did not touch the 8.5x11 paper. "what?"

    was it me? i don't know. but i have a hard time explaining this particular result. these were the last five shots of the day... out of ammo. and i'd love to get the chance to try again.
     
  4. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    While my experience with Kahr Arms has been anything but pleasant....

    I must say that my P9 is one of my most accurate sidearms!!!

    What did happen with those last three rounds, Big Taco????



    :wink: :wink:
     
  5. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    Yes, many times. I bought the M40A1 expressly (or excuse-ly) as an IDPA gun. Last month I beat the 1911 with it in a Steel match.


    I think the barrel is as capable as anything else for IDPA purposes. It's the short sight radius that makes things more difficult. The triggers are fine, IMO.

    Not to besmirch you BT (b/c I miss too) but if I was betting on this example, I'd bet on shooter error. And guessing shooter error would be right perhaps 85 times out of 100. Next I'd question ammo, and then barrel. Bad barrels don't generally touch shots, but then again random chance is everywhere.

    The longer slide Covert is a neat idea, I never handled one, and I decided on the PM40. I wanted something I knew would fit well in a pocket holster.

    Cheers,

    Ben
     
  6. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    i totally agree with the shooter error assessment. i mean, you'd have to work hard to make the GUN shoot that poorly.

    the guy whose gun i was shooting doesn't get out much so i haven't had a second chance at it. and those 5 shots were the only 5 taken at that long of a distance. i'd love to try it again.

    the trigger was certainly acceptable, it had a little bit of stack, but i had probably fired 50 rounds through it, so i'd hesitate to blame this as a significant factor.

    and as far as the longer slide covert idea, i'm pretty commited to modifying a steyr in this way. take an M40-A1 and cut the grip down to accept S mags. that would be an incredible carry piece, IMO of course :wink:

    now's the time to procure an M-A! for this purpose i suppose. still waiting to see if steyr is going to significantly change or update the newest production run of these though.

    what i'd be interested in seeing is a kahr vs. steyr match result. let us know what happens if you do this next weekend!!!
     
  7. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    I'm thinking that the next 2 gun I do will be Steyr vs. Kahr, so I certainly will report. I'd bet on the Steyr. If I had not had a nasty magazine problem, the 1911 probably would have beaten Kahr in speed too, simply because the trigger work (squeeze) is faster with 1911.

    The 2-gun IDPA is a bit of work, especially when switching calibers, i.e. 2 pistols with different actions and triggers, 2 brass bags, 2 ammo bags, 2 holsters, 2 sets of mags and ....and only 1 belt.

    Kind of stressful, but that's good too. Keeps you off-balance and you make more errors that you have to think through for next time.
     
  8. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    do you typically run both guns at each stage?

    or do you shoot the whole match with one gun and then switch to the new gun to shoot the whole match over again?

    trying to shoot a stage, re-gun and shoot the stage again each time would be quite a chore!! if that's what you're doing more power to you. i can see how that would be a pain.

    anytime i've shot multiple guns at a match, we always ran the first gun. then shot the whole match over again with the new gun.

    i notice that i always shoot the second round better. the rehearsal and first performance are done.

    that might be an advantage if you shoot two guns at each stage, in that you could take turns with which gun goes first.


    it'll be interesting, and i'd love to hear the results.
     
  9. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    BT-

    I have only done 2-guns for the last 2 shoots, and for each I shoot-then-switch gear around, and shoot again. They draw our score sheets randomly for the order, but if I end up with both sheets next to each other we just move one to make it easier. I did the Steel match first, b/c it is a small fee per gun, and I wanted to see if there was much diff in my performance b/t 1911 and Steyr. Although I posted earlier in this thread to SD that the Steyr beat the 1911 in the Steel match, that wasn't true. The 1911 score was better than my Steyr score in that Steel match, largely due to a long distance, weak hand string.


    It is a little too busy, and feels a bit more like work than play. The upside is more IDPA shooting, and the added stress is useful (maybe). On the balance....I'm planning single gun for next match.

    It didn't work this way on the 5 stages for me, some were and some weren't. That little Kahr is out quick, and the .40 recoil is less than the hot 230 gr reloads I'm shooting, but it takes more time when carful aimiing is required. In a close range draw-fire a head shot, then retreat backwards while engaging 2 more with double taps, my times with Kahr and 1911 were 0.01 seconds apart!


    I'll do a Steyr and Kahr match in the next few months and be sure to post about it.