Home Invasion Solution

Discussion in 'Anything Else' started by Guest, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    For some time now, I've been wondering about a way of handling the first stage of a home invasion. These usually start with one person coming to the front door and asking for some kind of favor; a glass of water, use of the phone or to go to the bathroom. As soon as the homeowner opens the door, the person and her accomplices barge in, slam the door shut and beat up the home owner. You'll notice in all this there's no time to go to the gun safe and get your M9.

    I think the solution would be some kind of a spring loaded doorstop in the floor. The homeowner, feeling suspicious, would step on a protruding rubber button and a spring loaded rod would pop up about four inches behind the door. The homeowner could then open the door and talk to the person outside. If that person then tried to smash their way in, the homeowner could pick up a strategically-located can of bear spray, spray the assailant, then slam the door shut and lock it. This would give time to get a handgun and phone the police.

    The reason this is better than a chain on the door is that the chain alerts the assailant who then tries to talk their way past the chain. The invisible doorstop, on the other hand, can be activated by foot as the homeowner opens the door. Since the assailant has never heard of such a thing, he/she then tries to force their way in, initiating the assault.

    This sounds workable to me. Any comments? Suggestions on where I can get a spring-loaded bar assembly?
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The obvious answer, to me, is simply not to allow strangers into your home. If you currently use a chain and the person attempts to bargain their way in either 1) arm yourself before allowing them in 2) pass them the phone or water or whatever they need out through the door 3) if possible with your homes layout, go to a window and make sure they are indeed alone before proceeding (perhaps ask them to go to another door and watch through a window).
     

  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Zone defence

    I don't like the idea of relying exclusively on a closed door. I also don't like the idea of a chain which merely broadcasts feelings of insecurity. Likewise, looking through the nearby windows won't work because there are still places for others to hide that are out-of-sight.

    I think the idea of a pop-up doorstop has a lot to recommend it because a) the assailant isn't expecting it and makes his move first, b) you're still secure and c) you now have the option of bear spraying him and closing the door.

    I'm thinking of putting the bear spray behind a small picture, on hinges and closed with a magnet, beside the front door. So, while still holding the door with my left hand I'll be able to flip open the picture and grab the spray can with my right. But this idea will only work if the door is being jammed by a doorstop at about the four inch mark.

    I've got a lot of other ideas on this subject, many of which I haven't read anywhere.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I imagine a system allowing you to pump about 100,000 volts through anyone leaning against the outside of the door by pushing a panic button on the inside :lol:

    More realistically, maybe something hydraulic at the hinge which allows the door only to open at a typical pace (evenly over 2.5-3 seconds), locking up if it is forced.
     
  5. ministerofdeath

    ministerofdeath New Member

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    Thats why I have my German Shepherd. He is still a puppy, but when full grown at roughly 90 lbs and trained in Schutzhund (German for Protection Dog) he will be a very scary welcome to anyone dumb enough to force their way into my home.
     
  6. revjen45

    revjen45 Member

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    #1: Don't be unarmed at home. If I'm awake I have a gun on my person.
    If I'm asleep it's by my head, and not just 1 either.
    #2: Don't allow strangers into your home, especially at night. At night answer the door with a gun in your hand. If this scares/offends the person, so be it.

    The device described sounds like an expensive answer to a non-existant problem. Use a chain and don't listen to any sob story about needing to get in. If it alerts a possible assailant that you are awake and prepared they will probably move on to someone who isn't. If they don't, you are ready to shoot. They won't die of thirst and if they experience unintentional discharge of urinary or fecal matter they won't die of that either. We live at the end of a semi-rural cul-de-sac and I have no delusions that the police would arrive in time to help. Anybody who would attempt violent entry is in for an ugly surprise.
     
  7. IDPASteyr

    IDPASteyr New Member

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    Well said fellow Texan!!
     
  8. ministerofdeath

    ministerofdeath New Member

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    You may want to look into having a well reinforced DOOR JAM. The frame around the door is typically where the a door to a home will break allowing illegal entry. Alot of people buy heavy doors, but have standard wooden door frames, and that is a big mistake.

    Security should be layered:

    1. Good Home Construction;
    2. Basic Security systems-ADT, Brinks, or even a GE system from circuit city depending on your budget;
    3. DOGS...don't hear about too many break-ins or home invasions where a large breed dog was in the home. Alot of people don't think you'll have the nerve to do anything, but they don't question a dogs ability to bring the pain. Plus, have you ever been to someones home where they have a dog? Chances are if you have been you know that dogs love to bark and run to the door;
    4. Firearms;
    5. Good relations with neighbors and a strong neighborhood watch.

    Some of you may remember the Federal Judge in Chicago that came home to find out that an intruder had broken into her home and killed her husband and mother. I found it odd that here was a very rich woman who between her and husband had to be pulling in 1/2 million or more a year and she didn't have a security system or one that had glass break detection on the windows of her basement? Security is worth the small amount of time and money that it takes.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I like the train of thought -- I think you're just going too high tech. Why not keep a simple rubber door stop (wedge type) by the front door. Position it about three inches back when you open the door, so it contacts it. If the BG tries to push his way in, it ought to catch. In my experience, those things are pretty darn effective, particularly if they are on some kind of hard floor like vinyl or wood.

    I've also known people with a holster riveted to the back of the door...although that wouldn't work in houses with kids.

    Jim
     
  10. RiceCakes

    RiceCakes New Member

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    also, whats to say that they cant talk their way past your little contraption and then assault you. If they hold up the phone or water gag until they let you in, it is also useless.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I keep a pistol handy at all times and tuck it and my holster IWB when I answer the door. I live in a small house, and there wouldn't be much time for retreat were someone to forcibly enter. I don't open my door (or usually answer it) unless I'm expecting someone or know the person knocking. I don't really like visitors, and it makes good security sense.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    More on Home Defense

    I've read all the responses to my original post and have to say I disagree with all but one of them. The basic problem is that you just can't go banging away at someone who pushes in the door because you've got no evidence trail. He, if he survives, is going to say he was just going to chat about stamp collecting when you pulled out your pistol and put a hole through his chest. Not good. Dogs? Dogs love meaty treats. Rubber door stopper? I can't get the darn things to stick even when there's no one at the door, much less when some 250 lb ape is slamming me against the wall. Wear a loaded auto around the house? My wife would have a fit.

    I've thought a _lot_ about this and have come up with a practical plan that lays out a full-spectrum response to a violent and persistant home invasion. I've put it on my website hereand I'd be very interested in your response.

    It may surprise Canadians reading this, but it actually is still legal in Canada to use deadly force to protect yourself from attack and injury. However, if you're calling the police to say there's a dead intruder in your home you'd better have some pretty convincing evidence that your life was in danger. This is the problem I've tried to address.

    Have a look at the Q&A section as well and let me know what you think, either here or directly.
     
  13. ScottW

    ScottW New Member

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    IMO, you're worrying too much about evidence, or lack thereof, and what it's going to look like to the police after you shoot a home invader. I don't know what laws you've got up in Canada, but down here pretty much all the evidence you need is that the BG was in your home and armed.

    I took a quick look at your web page. The concern my fiancee would have with me carrying a pistol around the house pales in comparison to the fit she would throw if I tried to install a steel gate in the middle of our hallway! It just doesn't fit with her interior decorating scheme. The mention of bear spray makes it seem like you're overly concerned with not harming somebody who is intent on harming you.

    You've got good info re: locks, doors, etc and making sure your house is generally secure to the outside. So you've got forced entry covered. There's no way to force past that without the BG leaving evidence of a breakin that would therefore justify a shooting. Worried about a stealthy lock-picking BG? Get an alarm system or, better yet, a dog. My dog is considerably more sensitive than the average home alarm, and he'll go off long before a door or window could be opened. Worried about deceptive entry? Use the peep-hole in the door, or a small security camera outside it. If you can't clearly identify somebody you know, don't unlock the door. Simple.

    Also, I'm not overly concerned with a BG with one hole in his chest living to tell his side of the story. He will have many more than one hole in him; the exact number will be limited only by my magazine capacity and how quickly he drops to the floor. If your life and the lives of your family are resting on the hope of a one-shot stop, you might be disappointed.

    One last comment... at the top of your page it says "How to protect yourself and your family from assault, rape and murder in your own home." Seems to me that owning and knowing how to use a gun should be pretty high up on the checklist, not way down at the bottom.
     
  14. Sound25

    Sound25 New Member

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    Re: More on Home Defense

    While I agree that dogs love treats, most will bark before they intruder has the chance to open the door, and the odds of them carrying a 5lb bag of beef in their pocket is slim, and would just go to show the pre-meditaion on their part as to cause you bodily harm. One suggestion that I can give you is to grab your gun when someone knocks on your door, even if it is someone you are expecting. If they are welcome in your home, the odds are good that they know you carry a pistol, and would not be offended. And as others have said, if the "guest" is just someone looking for a phone, and they see your gun, they will probably decide to go somewhere else, but if they don't run away, offer to make the call for them. I have lived in some pretty rough areas, and have always had a pistol or rifle/shotgun either by the door, or on my person, and if my wife did not like it, too damned bad. She knew that I bought them, had them in the house, so what is the difference? What good does a gun do you locked in a safe? If you are worried about children, teach them to leave it alone, and keep it out of their reach. Trust your shooting ablities, be prepared to kill what you shoot at, not just to incapacitate, the odds of hitting a person in a non-vital area is slim, and if you have the time to aim for their foot, then you have the time to close the door. I hope that some of what I said helps. And that you will never need any of this advice.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Comments appreciated

    I appreciate your comments on my home defense suggestions. Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive to evidence generation and not sensitive enough to getting my M9 in my hands early.

    I also realize 'talk is cheap' and the true test of any system is how it performs in practice. If a home invasion ever happens to me, I hope I'll meet the challenge.

    In the meantime, I'm working on building and marketing the doorstop I mentioned. If anyone is interested in obtaining a prototype, let me know. Again, thanks for the feedback.
     
  16. ministerofdeath

    ministerofdeath New Member

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    If you're worried about a dog taking treats you can train them to refuse treats from strangers or any food for that matter. Now, must people don't have the time, money, etc. to train a dog in protection properly and believe me you don't want a dog trained in protection unless its done right or you've got a danger to yourself and family.

    If you guys are curious about having an almost full-proof family protection trained dog check out the following website http://www.leerburg.com and http://www.germanshepherddog.com for Schutzhund (German for Protection Dog) training clubs in your state and info about the sport. Now, I like the German Shepherd over other breeds, but other breeds do have the temperment for protection work such as dobermans and rotties. My German Shepherd "Dieter" is four months and we've already started some bitework, scent tracking, and basic obedience. He is doing GREAT and I have to say that its fun to do something that gets me outdoors more often and helps protect my family at the same time. With any luck I hope to have Dieter fully trained at three years of age.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There's nothing wrong with an extra layer of defense, but I agree that it sounds a little contrived and is a problem better solved with other means. We don't open our front door for anyone, nearly without exception unless we are expecting company. My peep hole lets me know who is ringing -- most often a solicitor -- and I never even bother to answer in that situation. I don't give a damn if the fucker can see me through the window sitting on the couch watching TV -- I'm not answering.

    I also have two Rotties who hold down the fort when we're not home. Both are in the process of obedience training, and the male is a strong candidate for Schutzhund. Protection training isn't an over night solution, though. Since this is my first experience with Schutzhund it's going to take at least a year to get him well trained. Even with basic obedience training, my dogs aren't going to be easily swayed by "treats" from a stranger. I've had two verbal confrontations with a park ranger at the dog park and both times my Rotties quickly picked up on my attitude and demeanor toward this jackass and they started acting in my defense -- the female by positioning herself between me and the ranger; the male by pulling at the leash and growling. This wasn't trained -- it's instinct, and there's no t-bone that ranger could have pulled out of his pocket to entice them into backing off as long as they could tell I was feeling threatened. They might have taken the t-bone and just continued up the guys arm and to his neck.

    A big part of the reason I recently became a gun owner again for the first time in about 8 years was the result of a middle-of-the-night ring at our door bell.

    About 4:00am the loud "ding-dong" happens and I jumped out of bed in that hazy WTF stupor that happens when you're startled from a deep slumber. I quickly got into a pair of shorts as the bell rang for a second time, and I hustled up to the door. As I reached the door I knew that I wasn't answering it no matter what the emergency unless it was a relative or the cops (the cops would have had the door opened by then, anyways), but I wondered what I could do in the case that someone was intent on busting through the door regardless of whether I answered or not. I came up with some really lame options, and started searching the next day for a new gun.

    Turns out the guy was mentally ill and on meth. He left the first time after I cussed him out through the door and told him to get lost. I called the cops, but he was gone by the time they arrived. He returned a couple of hours later and was waiting for me outside the garage door as I raised it to go to work. A 1/2 hour earlier my wife had left, fortunately without seeing him and without confrontation. Once again he and I had a verbal altercation, and it became clear this guy wasn't in his right mind. He wasn't threatening me, but he was confused about where he was, who I was, and what he was doing there. He sincerely believed he belonged on my front porch for whatever reason. I continued to shout at him as he retreated down the driveway and down the street, and then promptly went to make another call to the police.

    Within 5 minutes this guy was back sitting on my front porch -- rocking in a chair and muttering to himself. A couple of minutes after that the cops showed up and gave him a pretty hard time. He got cited for trespassing and eventually entered a "not guilty" plea at court. "Not guilty?" WTF? You gotta be kidding me.

    So I ended up with a subpoena and had to go down to testify about the night of short sleep and ringing door bells. I had expected to see a contrite guy who was prepared to ask for help with his mental illness and/or drug addiction. Instead, what I encountered was a lying bastard who was claiming to have had a head injury (for reasons of brevity I'll leave out all the evidence that refuted that claim, but suffice it to say this was complete bullshit). No remorse. No apology. No admitting to having a problem of any kind.

    He eventually plead "no contest." I have an extensive background in mental health and drug and alcohol addictions counseling and presented my case to the judge quite well. He got 30 days in the clink with a mandatory drug/mental health eval as part of the sentence.

    I have no idea whether or not I'm going to see this guy again, but if there is a next time I have a feeling that he will not be as docile and may well have an idea of settling the score. If so, I am now more than prepared and will not hesitate in that blury 4:00am hazy to grab my Steyr M40 rather than wondering if a knife or a baseball bat will keep me and my family safe in the face of the unknown intentions just outside the front door.

    Ed
     
  18. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    Epic,
    for shooting a hopped up druggie through the door he is trying to force his way past I would consider a 12 gauge, w/ the .40 as back-up. I would also suggest something in the 5 shot snubbie group, either 38+p or .357 for a purse gun for the wife.

    Never having been in addiction counseling professionly, but spending plenty of years in/around the program I can only tell you to mark your calender when his 30 days are up.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    LOL -- not planning to shoot him through the door. I want the Rotties to chew on him a little first. The shot gun is a nice tool to have in the arsenal, though.

    I'm trying to get the wife out to the range to shoot a few revolvers. She hates guns and barely tolerates having one in the house. In fact, this incident was the event that swung the scales in my favor. I'm thinking a .357 with .38 ammo would be a good way to go for her. We'll she what she can handle -- she ain't exactly "petite" so she may be able to pack it with the full .357 round.

    Ed
     
  20. ministerofdeath

    ministerofdeath New Member

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    Nice post Epic!

    I'm glad I've got another guy who is into Schutzhund on this site. :D Great sport that I'm training my German Shepherd "Dieter" in right now. (Sucks up your money though :lol: ). Rotties are great dogs and really do awesome in protection work. I went with the German Shepherd because I'm also interested in doing some search & rescue work with him at some point and they have great tracking abilities.

    A firearm is a most have in my opinion and any logical person will always come to that conclusion. For instance, my cousin is a rookie deputy sheriff for two different counties working part-time right now after graduation from the academy. From what my cousin tells me it takes anywhere from five to fifteen minutes for a law enforcement officer to respond to a call unless they are driving right by when they receive it from dispatch.

    I even have one fellow law student who is a metro-police officer who informed me that it once took him 45 minutes to respond to a reported break-in. It seems that because of union regulations they have to in their department have two officers per patrol car and therefore can you only field so many cars per shift for financial reasons. The break-in was reported through an alarm company that than in turn had to call the police and by the time all that had happened and the officer was able to get to the home a total of 45 minutes had elapsed. Now, obviously this is on the high-end of response time, but not beyond the realm of possibility.

    So, it is simple math...so many citizens with only so many officers and patrol cars per shift with however many miles of coverage just equals waiting for help when in trouble. Cops can't be personal body guards and waiting for them to respond even five minutes can be an eternity in a life and death situation. In conclusion, the only logical thing a citizen can do to prevent harm or death to themselves and their family is to purchase a handgun.

    Now if only we could get the Anti-Gun Nuts to think logically.