hit harder or follow up faster?

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Flashpoint, May 24, 2005.

  1. Flashpoint

    Flashpoint New Member

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    I went to the range the other day to site in my Marlin 60 and you know I can't go to the range without taking the twins along. After getting the .22 sited in and knocking a golfball all over the place with it :D I pulled out the Steyrs. I put 100 rounds through the S9 and 50 through the S40. After it was all said and done I noticed that I'm just as accurate with the S40 as I am with the S9, but I tend to be able to accuratly follow up a half second faster with the S9 vs the S40.

    So here's the question, would you carry something that would hit harder like the .40 or carry something that would allow for slightly faster follow up shots?
     
  2. Ripped

    Ripped New Member

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    harder versus faster . would you rather knock someone out in one punch or have to hit them four or five times to drop them.. just my opinion s40 all the way.. :) w00t
     

  3. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    i prefer a .40 for a defensive round. It penetrates better and causes a larger wound cavity than either 9 OR 45.

    Using a shot timer and point shooting as long as you can get the rounds into a fullsize sillhouette at 20 ft i bet you the difference is less than that half second.

    And it's ten rounds either way in an S.

    9 is cheaper practice, and by all means in a +p carry load still a very good defense round.

    I just prefer the 40, and base that on nothing more than the pure gelatin tests and "obstrucion" tests the FBI did in the 90's before putting out the specs for a shorter and less hot 10mm cartridge that S&W filled.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I guess this is where we degenerate into Caliber Corner on Glock Talk. I'll fan the flames with this:

    There is marginal terminal difference between the best 9mm and .40 S&W. Bullet performance and its relation to incapacitation in animals, including humans, is based on penetration and permanent crush cavity (tissue damage) causing significant blood pressure drop to affect ability to function. In this respect, scientific testing has shown there is virtually no difference between the major service calibers when using expanding ammunition - 9mm, .45 ACP and .40 S&W. Data from the latest expanding bullet designs show these differences shrink even more.

    Energy of common handgun calibers is so minimal as to have little, if any, effect on incapacitation effectiveness. Only when approaching rifle cartridge levels of energy and velocity (typically 3-4+ times more than pistol calibers) does enough tissue damage occur that "energy dump" become significant in incapcitation.

    So, I'll put my trust in accurate, controllable fire from my S9 with Ranger T 147gr, with typically 2 rounds per target at about .18 seconds apart. I'll take the savings from practicing with 9mm over .40 S&W to shoot that much more and get that much more proficient with my 9mm.

    Flame on! :lol:

    Jeff
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree with Jeff. I carry a 9mm because I can shoot more of it for less money. I subscribe to the shot placement theory rather than the "magic" one shot stops. The caliber debate is worn out and not reliable. Shoot for the kill triangle: nipples to top of sternum, then alternate between the triangle and the head as the aggressor becomes near or does not stop.

    You must train, train, train...

    Use whatever decent HP round feeds reliably. I use Winchester white box HP, or whatever I can afford.
     
  6. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    So in other words use what you want as long as you HIT!!!

    Sonds good to me.
     
  7. mccosgrove

    mccosgrove Premium Member

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    I agree!! Shot placement is paramont, and if you can practice more with the 9mm because of the cost of ammo, then go for it. I carry my S9 or G26 with Golden Sabres 124grain. No matter what you get shot with, it is going to hurt!!!
     
  8. madecov

    madecov Active Member

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    I do prefr the larger 40 over the 9mm. I prefer the larger 45 over the 40. :lol:

    I prefer the 50AE over the 45. I will carry the 40 on duty after Qualification. I currently carry the 45. The 50AE is not practical.

    All that being said, I'm not one the types who thinks anything but the 45 is king.

    9mm is a fine round in the modern loadings. So is any other cartridge above that caliber. I have been known to carry a 380 when anything larger than my Mustang was impratical. I have even carried a 22 mag and a 25 when larger guns were impractical.

    Carry a gun/caliber that works for you. YOU need to be comfortable with it. YOUneed to be able to hit your target with it.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    And there you have it, from someone who does this for a living! It reminds me of the quote, "a hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .45".

    I knew there was a smarter class of folks here, and this proves Steyr owners have superior intellect :wink:

    I remember you mentioning this, are you carrying a 1911? Now this makes a lot of sense to me mainly because the superior trigger of this platform enables a higher probability of a first shot critical hit, not to mention the ultra-short reset for follow-up shots. While I understand DA/DAO from a LE department liability standpoint, to me it doesn't make sense if you're forced to draw a handgun and use deadly force. With a crisp 4-5 lb SA trigger (and ultra short reset) it is much easier to get a first shot hit than with a 11-15 pound long-travel DA trigger. That is one of the reasons I am considering selling my Sig P228.

    Jeff
     
  10. ministerofdeath

    ministerofdeath New Member

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    I don't own the Steyr S-series of pistols, but I do own an M-40 and a large factor in my purchase of the .40 caliber over the 9mm was that the Steyr M was built from the ground up to be a .40 caliber and then later adapted into a 9mm version.

    Not sure if the S-series was the same as the M-series in going from being developed for .40 caliber to being adapted into a 9mm, but something to look into and consider none the less.
     
  11. Deluxe247

    Deluxe247 Supporting Member

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    What everyone else said: Practice and Training.

    This reminds me of a saying we have in paintball: "Accuracy through Volume".

    Now, real life situations don't have a second chance like pb does but I think that you are more likely to stop the threat with more well placed shots fired rapidly than relying on the first one to take them out right off. If you are comfortable with your weapon and practice reguarly, you will be able to get more well placed shots in a stressful situation regardless of caliber.

    -D
     
  12. madecov

    madecov Active Member

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    I currently carry a Colt 1911.
    I think it is almost the best platform for the caliber. It can be set up to fit almost anyone's hands.
    H&K/Glock/Para and other 45 double stack guns are nice and have capacity, but they tend to be large and heavy. The Sig 220 is probably as near perfect a compromise as one will find in that it now has 8 round magazines to match the 1911 and the anti liability double action most departments require.

    No one size of anything will everyone that's why we have choices.