Hirtenberger

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by Kokitron, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. Kokitron

    Kokitron New Member

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    I came across a box of 9mm luger 100grs SOFT POINT FL-BULLET LE GRADE. Even though these rounds say that they're 100grs, the bottom of the casings say +p+. Has anybody used these in their M9-A1? Is it safe? What was your experience? I thought that +p+ also meant more grs. Can some one explain...?
    Thanks, K.
     
  2. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    +P+ is a factor of pressure, not weight of the bullet. Anything within SAAMI specs is rated standard pressure. Beyond that there is +P, which is slightly over SAAMI standard pressure. Anything that exceeds +P is rated +P+, which means it exceeds SAAMI specs in every way and there is no way to know if it will be "safe" to shoot.

    I have never heard of the ammo you speak of, but I think it's safe to make a few guesses. For starters, 100gr. is pretty light, even for a 9mm - you're in the top of the .380 weight class with this load. If it's +P+, it's going to be SMOKING HOT. I'd be very interested to see chrono results :twisted:. It's marked "LE"? If that means Law Enforcement, I'm calling BS - 100gr. is awful light, and being a softpoint, I would expect it to frag like crazy and probably not penetrate very deep. I definitely wouldn't use the stuff for defensive purposes.

    The only +P+ I've shot is the Winchester Ranger 127gr. +P+, which is generally regarded as pretty safe. You probably don't want to shoot a pallet of anything +P+, or even +P for that matter, but you are usually OK with a hundred rounds here and there. However, since I've never heard of the stuff you are shooting, you probably want to put some thought into it and be careful if you do decide to shoot it.

    By the way, where-about are you located? Here in the US?

    Also worth mentioning, I don't believe Steyr endorses the use of +P+ (does any manufacturer, for that matter?), but they are very "don't ask, don't tell" with their warranty work. However, I would never advise someone to knowingly harm or destroy their pistol just because their customer service is stellar.
     

  3. nixon

    nixon Member

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    kokitron,
    Hirts are made in Germany and they also make 5.56 and 308. I believe they are no longer available in the US market for quite sometime now (supply dried up). They are good ammo, however, +p+ 9's are normally used for sub-machine guns like HK's MP5 models etc. and are not advisable for use in handguns on a regular basis.

    nixon,
     
  4. madecov

    madecov Active Member

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    Sub gun ammo, very hot.
    I wouldn't shoot a lot through any pistol.
     
  5. Kokitron

    Kokitron New Member

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    Thanks for all the advice and info. That makes sense to me now.
    K
     
  6. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    I shot one box thru a Glock some years ago. Very hot and rough on the gun.
     
  7. olli9022

    olli9022 Steyr Mannlicher Representative

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    by the way: Hirtenberger is/was an Austrian company lately sold to RUAG / Germany.
    The FL Bullet is a standard semi pointed cone design bullet, used by Austrian Police
    after the Hollow Point ban in Austria.

    Olli
     
  8. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    Very interesting, Olli - thanks for the info!

    I would really like to see a block of jello shot with one of those. Also, I wonder what criteria other police agencies use for their ammo selection. Here in the States, 12" minimum penetration is required in ballistic gelatin. Do Austrian Police have a similar set of standards for their duty loads?
     
  9. posterboy7

    posterboy7 New Member

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    I read a story in some handgun magazine, probably it was an Ayoob Files, about a person with a Glock who ran with Hirtenburger Police rounds for CCW. The story goes he pulled the mag, racked the slide to eject the chambered round and then passed the gun to a friend of his to look over. Friend looks over the gun and the guys are talking. Friend hands the gun back a bit later and Mr. Glock Owner, in the tradition of a bad habit he developed, sticks his left hand in front of the muzzle while he pulls the trigger to reset it. BLAM!

    Mr. Glock Owner didn't notice that his gun-inexperienced friend had inserted the mag and racked the slide, then took the mag out. Mr. Glock Owner blew a hole through his left hand. His friend feints and friend's elderly father runs into the room to see his son laying on the floor, blood, and a guy holding the gun that had obviously just gone off. This is the point in the story where Ayoob points out that if elderly father had been armed the situation could have been much worse and other other lessons from the incident.

    I had never heard of Hirtenburgers before and had filed that name away.
     
  10. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    That story makes some excellent points, Posterboy.....

    Thank you for sharing with us all!
     
  11. posterboy7

    posterboy7 New Member

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    Sticking the palm of your off hand in front of the muzzle while dry firing a gun is an interesting phenomenon. I have to admit to doing it once or twice when I was new to guns. I have seen other people do it (and heard a different story with the same result of a blasted hand) and when I recently took a woman friend of mine shopping for a pistol she did the same thing with some of the guns she was looking at. Its like some basic instinct is motivating that maneuver.
     
  12. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    "Every gun is always loaded" :roll:
     
  13. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    Isn't that Handgun Safety RULE # 1????
     
  14. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    i don't think it's exclusive to HAND guns!!!

    number 4) never point the muzzle at anything you aren't willing to destroy

    i guess some people are very dissatisfied with their left hands!!! :D
     
  15. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    Perhaps there was a pun intended...

    ...blasting your hand away.....

    ...handgun....

    ...but on the other hand.....

    :wink:

    I dunno....

    :?
     
  16. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    i couldn't recommend pointing a long gun at your hand either!!!