Hearing Loss and ammo question.

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Buzz, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    On the way to the gun shop this morning I got to thinking about hearing protection. This raised a question. The question assumes that the military trains and goes into combat without the use of hearing protection. Is hearing loss a significant issue for the military? I can't imagine that hearing protection is used in training or in combat situations? Does a helmut offer any protection, or, elevate the problem?

    As to LEOs, I've shot at police ranges and have used hearing protection, but do officers qualify wearing hearing protection?

    My personal practice has always been to shoot every gun that I would ever use defensively on at least a couple of occasions (on a very limited basis) without hearing protection so that I will know what to expect. I can say that on the two occasions that I raised my gun ready to fire in self-defense no hearing protection was available or even considered.

    BTW, speaking of driving to the gun shop, I bought/did something this morning that I never thought I would do. I picked up a "guest gun". When my father-in-law and brother-in-law come to town for visits we will go shooting together. They are welcome to shoot anything that I own as they are flying in from out of state and have to leave their guns at home. My father-in-law is small in stature and expressed a preference for shooting a .25 ACP pocket gun, a gun that he depends upon back where he lives. So, today I picked up a used Beretta 21A in .25 ACP. I've got to admit that it seems like a very nice little piece and I may have some fun with it myself. The tilt-up barrel is kinda cool and I got it for a song. I bought 100 rounds of Sellier & Bellot (the least expensive .25 in the shop) and found the .25 ACP to be more expensive than 9mm. The same is true of .32 and .380 both more expensive than 9mm, and by a good bit. Is there any good reason why smaller caliber ammo is often more expensive than larger caliber? I've noticed this with other brands as well.

    Buzz
     
  2. DKHAN

    DKHAN Guest

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    You want expensive try 44spl, but I digress.
    As LEO we always wore ears on the range. I was in a high risk entry unit so every range session we were in full gear including body armour.
    In the Army back in the 80's we always used ear plugs on the range but not in the field.
    You can't shoot what you can't hear. I lost about 15% hearing in my right ear f/two years worth of M60 blanks w/out plugs.
    Working security at rock concerts did not help.
    I also have shot in and out doors w/ears on and it is not fun.
    Matter of fact last week I had an oops.
    I was scrounging my 357sig brass after each mag and forgot to put ears back on before firing one off f/next mag.
    Last round I fired w/out ears was as LEO and it was 9mm. 357sig barks alot worse and rings your bell a little longer.Not a habit I plan to continue .
    I understand the idea of going through the experience of live fire because as you stated,ears are not an option at certain times.
    Again nothing I plan to repeat,I've had all the loud bang I need.
     

  3. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Thanks DKHAN, that was pretty much as I thought about LEOs and the military.

    In my unprotected shooting I have actually found .45 to be less objectionable than 9mm. It seems less sharp, but I suppose that may not be indicative of the actual dmamage being done. I haven't worked up the cajones to try shooting the .40 unprotected, and that is the caliber of my current home protection gun. I hear that the .40 can be very unpleasant.

    As to ammo, I've been eyeing getting back into reloading, but after looking at component prices and all the other expenses I don't see the advantage being quite where they need to be....yet. While I used to love reload, the time involved is the big factor and other than the enjoyment is not a cost-effective use.

    Buzz
     
  4. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    I've only shot 9mm w/o ears one time. It was outdoors in the middle of a field and I only shot one round of Winchester Ranger 127gr. +P+. My ears didn't ring, but it was loud. I've also shot a .40S&W 165gr. Remington Golden Saber indoors - that was painful. My ears rang for 2 days - I won't be doing that again. Never shot .45 w/o ears, but I know that virtually all (dry) .45's w/ suppressors still aren't hearing safe - at least 9mm and .40 can be brought down to a managable level (and all it costs is money! :p). I would highly recommend not purposefully damaging your hearing just to see "what it's like". It will be loud and it will catch you offgaurd and it won't be pleasant, but it beats the alternative.

    The great thing about a home defense pistol is that it you get to set it up however you want and you don't have to lug it around all day (size/weight are not nearly as big of an issue). Perhaps it's time to go quiet?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Huh? Say again?

    Ear protection? That's for sissies! (And old idiots like me who can't hear have learned far too late we were wrong!)

    I grew up hunting, shooting shotguns and rifles without ear protection, as well as plinking and target practicing.

    Then after four years in the Navy, including firing M1 30'06s and 1911 .45s without ear protection, not to mention that night off the coast of Vietnam when I got too close to the business end of a 5" naval gun that durn near blew my head off and left me deaf and head-rung for three days ... where was I? Oh yeah, 30 percent hearing loss upon discharge. Not enough for a disability check but enough to add to those years of pistol, rifles and shotguns without ear protection.

    I never owned a set of muffs until I bought my first pistol in years in 2001, a S&W 1076, and when I shot that 10mm the first time I thought, holy moly, I better get some ear protection. Man that's one loud round. And believe it or not my M357-A1 is even louder. I've shot it once by mistake without my muffs on. Won't do that again.

    Now I never shoot without protection but I'd sure like to start over and do it right and be able to hear better now.

    All you young whipper-snappers listen up, while you can. :mrgreen:
     
  6. DocChronos

    DocChronos Premium Member

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    I live in a community next door to Ft. Lewis and McChord AFB. I see a lot of active duty and retired military vets in my office, plus close to 70 percent of adult males have served in the military in the past. This is a “military town.”

    Hearing loss is a kind of standing joke. You get a bunch of us gray heads together and the most common sound is “huh.” While most Army vets lose hearing from gun fire, most Air Force vets lose theirs from jet engines. My particular hearing loss is from using headsets while scanning Russian radio frequencies for Uncle Sam back when.

    I grew up with a gun in my hand (or a fishing pole, depending on the season), and never used earplugs or earmuffs when shooting. It wasn’t the smartest thing, but back then nobody even gave a thought to ear protection. Most of my Dad’s hunting buddies were WWII vets, and when I hunted with them, nobody used ear protection. Of course, hearing loss was pretty common with them, as well. You would think we would catch on …

    Doc
     
  7. West01

    West01 New Member

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    I'm sorry what did say? :p

    My service years were murder on my hearing ability. But it was not only firearms, it may also have to do with siting in an helicopter most of the time. Dang! those Pratt & Whitney Twin Packs were loud! The SPH helmets were useless....

    I agree with you Buzz,... for some reason .45ACP crack is not as brutal has a 9mm or a .40 S&W.. Why?... I have no clue?

    Keep these ears protected as much as you can.

    Cheers!

    West01

    :D
     
  8. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    I liken the crack of a .45 to be like its recoil, which is more of a "push", powerful but without a sharp edge. From what I've heard from others the .40 is more like it's recoil, which, depending on the gun, many have described as snappy.

    While I wear hearing protection as a strict rule, I can still see the value of experiencing at least one round of a caliber unprotected. Knowing what to expect is, at least for me, part of training. I wouldn't expect hearing loss from such a limited event to be anything to be concerned about. Continued unprotected shooting would be quite another thing.

    It's interesting that we subject our military to such injuries (where a 30% hearing loss isn't considered a disability) yet if we subjected workers to the same risks OSHA would be all over it.

    Buzz
     
  9. QPluralisT

    QPluralisT Guest

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    Ah, I finally had a chance to ask a few military friends of mine today about this.

    The military issues hearing protection, especially at training exercises, but many soldiers choose not to wear it in order to hear orders clearer. Since the military issues hearing protection they feel hearing loss is not necessary to cover. Granted this is the opinion of two soldiers from the same battalion, but from what I'm reading this seems to be a common issue.

    Perhaps there's a market in US Military contracts for American Sign Language. :lol:
     
  10. midtnshooter

    midtnshooter Premium Member

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    Great Set Of Hearing Protection

    Hey All,

    I received my set of ears last weekend and was a little skeptical of how something so small without density could work. I was turned onto this pair by a IPSC shooter from over the big pond and decided to try them out. He shoots a STI .38 Super with only these. When I shoot a Super, I have to double my ears because of the noise, yes at that level , it is noise. I shoot a 40 and MAN, they were/are amazing. They sale for about 20-25$ (I paid a little more, bought some stuff from overseas), but these things look like a small radio headset. A small foam cushion barely fits into the ear canal and all noise (other than speach) is reverberated throughout the sides. Trust me they work ! They come with this soft carry case in all the basic four colors (red,blue,grey and something else "no pink ladies"). They are lighter than the electronic ears and less expensive than custom ears, and comfortable.


    With a pair of these, you can avoid what I did for many years. I simply had my preschoolers stick their fingers in my ears while I shot :shock: . They b*tched a lot (don't know why) and was happy on my new purchase. Just kidding (for the members and fans of the S.P.E.C.A.), I had the youngest holding the older siblings ears also.


    See Ya All,

    MTS

    http://www.zemzone.com/
    http://www.doublealpha.biz/shop.htm#top

    When you go onto the doublealpha website, look on the right side (#5 Zem Hearing Protection) and click there. Saul gives a short details page with a couple photos in action.
     
  11. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Hey MTS, I have a set of those. I picked them up on ebay, and I believe the NRA online store sells them. I have been leery about trying them but will try them my next trip to the range.

    Buzz
     
  12. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    Have you guys seen these? Definitely looks interesting. I was really skeptical at first, but I've heard some good reviews on other shooting boards. Might be worth a try...

    [​IMG]
     
  13. midtnshooter

    midtnshooter Premium Member

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    Oh Thanks Syn,

    Now I have to go out and buy those too. I think I will try them to compare the two for my children. My son (16) and daughter (12) both loves to shoot. I actually believe my son would give me a run for my money. He is on the high school ROTC shooting team. He has great breathing control, unlike his dad.

    Take Care,
    MTS
     
  14. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    :shock: :shock: :shock:


    MUST be nice to live in a RED state.........

    Nothing like that at any BLUE State schools.... Just a bunch of whining hippies getting high.....

    babj615 <--- currently a RED peg stuck in a BLUE canvas.....

    :roll: :roll: :roll:
     
  15. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Tell me about it. It's great. Here in Georgia my daughter's high school has a shooting range. Folks belong to shooting leagues around here like they do to bowling leagues elsewhere.

    Buzz
     
  16. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    :shock: :!: :shock: :!: :shock:

    babj615 <---- Just fell out of my chair........

    WTF?

    A shooting range in a high school???

    That would 'imply' that weapons are on campus....

    :? :? :?

    All but 7 years of my life in Dallas have been on the west coast.... and it is pretty BLUE over here....

    babj615 <---- Thinkin' he's been sheltered too much himself....

    Boy, Have I missed out....

    :( :( :(
     
  17. Buzz

    Buzz Premium Member

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    Many high schools around here have shooting teams and the ranges to practice on. Shooting is part of the culture.

    I like it :D

    Buzz
     
  18. midtnshooter

    midtnshooter Premium Member

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    Red States Rock !!! Come to Tennessee where we don't even support our Senator for President. Tells you something about Gore, Huh?

    Shooting makes the students more responsible.

    Unlike their parents :D :D

    MTS
     
  19. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    I thought having a firearm on school property was a Felony [everywhere].....

    ...apparently, I was wrong!

    :oops: :oops:
     
  20. midtnshooter

    midtnshooter Premium Member

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    Councelors Correct Me If I am Wrong, but if state allowed, it would be up to the school districts.

    The instructor at my son's school has all weapons locked up and the rifles are low cal and air in some cases.