Frontsight Trip 4-day Defensive Handgun

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by Lamarr72, Nov 24, 2010.

  1. Lamarr72

    Lamarr72 New Member

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    I recently returned from a Frontsight 4-Day Defensive Handgun Course out in Pahrump NV. I purchased a coupon on-line and attended a Friday-Monday Course. It was not what I expected. I had already watched all the marketing and hype from the 90's video clips offered by the main stream media and Ignatius Piazza himself but was really just interested in elevating my proficiency in firearms in general. As Frontsight terms "skill at arms". The course was not a vacation at the range. It was extremely well structured including, 600+ rounds of ammo, intensive lectures on the moral and ethics behind using a firearm in self defense and absolutely top notch instructors. We averaged about 10 hours a day with optional early "dry practice" and an excellent dusk or low light range session with the flashlight. I really enjoyed the all to be it short simulator with a lot of paper bad guys in the house for a room to room clearing scenario.
    Overall this course is highly recommended. The coupons offered for these courses are fast and furious, I picked up a couple recently for 2-day Shotgun and Rifle for $49 each. The 4-day is now going for $199 each. Thats a stupid price for what I experienced. I wish I could go back next week. It is obvious that Frontsight is running on pure cash flow right now so the courses are offered very cheap to get people through the program.
    BTW I used the M40 A1 exclusively for the week and it ran flawless. We worked concealed from holster the last two days and I had a Blade-Tech Paddle for that which was perfecto. Any reservations of the Trap Sights were evaporated during timed target drills at varying distances. The Steyr pointed fast and shot consistently with fast and short trigger reset [Thanks BT]. An absolutely fantastic piece of hardware.:drool:
     
  2. blueorison

    blueorison Member

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    I was just inquiring about Frontsite today. Wonderful insight. For that price, training is a no brainer. Can you give us more descriptions of the type of courses and drill you ran? The round count is low, too. I'm definitely planning on signing up in the future. Been wanting to do a course to sharpen my mind.
     

  3. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    I would be all over it if it wasn't most of the way across the country.
     
  4. blueorison

    blueorison Member

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    Question, how big were the class sizes, and how many instructors per class?
     
  5. Lamarr72

    Lamarr72 New Member

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    That's usually the first comment I hear is the round count is low. It might be for the 4-day course but they emphasize quality and not quantity. If the instructors start seeing double hand-sized groups in the thoracic cavity and complete misses on the failure to stop head shot [which is usually un-timed] then the line will unload and go to "dry practice" and immediately return to the previous drills. The change in group size for the better can be dramatic. So in short I never felt deprived in shooting actual rounds. To the contrary my accuracy was greatly improved. Less rounds are fired in the beginning of the course while you start training from the holster and eventually from concealment. On the last day the test is run the quickest target is at 5 yards and it turns on you to start the drill. You have 1.5 seconds to get a controlled pair into the thoracic cavity from concealment. If it seems fast, it is, but definitely achievable with the training they offer. They run the test on the last day in the afternoon because you will be tired, sore, cuts and bruises on your hands, mentally fatigued, etc... You will be under stress, nothing close to a real gunfight but it will affect your shooting all the same. The general rule they teach is the 50% rule. In a gunfight you will only be half as good as your last time on the range.
     
  6. Lamarr72

    Lamarr72 New Member

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    Specifically the training and testing gets broken down to firing on turning targets with the command to shoot a controlled pair to the thoracic cavity and at several distances you will be required to fire a failure to stop head shot [intra ocular cavity: roughly a 2X4 inch area under the eyebrow and above the mustache] when the target turns again.
    Distances for controlled pairs

    3m
    5m
    7m
    15m
    There were also 3 failure to stops but I cannot remember the distances.

    Second part of the testing is clearing malfunctions and reloads [tactical and emergency]

    You start with 125 points and get deductions for missed target hits and failure to clear malfunctions or perform reloads in specified times. Not an easy test overall.
     
  7. Lamarr72

    Lamarr72 New Member

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    There were 22 lanes on our range with the buddy system being used to speed training that makes about 44 max in our class. There is one Range Master in charge for the class duration and 3 to 5 instructors rotating through our range. 3-5 on the line at all times and I felt pretty safe during the four days. The optional night or dusk shoot on day 3 with flashlight and Harries Technique is highly recommended.

    There is at least one or two lectures per day, and some Dr. Piazza Marketing Videos during lunch if you would like to watch! Ive seen them all and they are fine. There is no high pressure to be a lifetime member while you are there but they will offer different levels to you. I recommend a cheap coupon and attend the course you choose with a buddy if you can, and get a feel for what the message is. I think it is a good one and the training is excellent.
     
  8. blueorison

    blueorison Member

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    Sounds great! Thanks!
     
  9. Lamarr72

    Lamarr72 New Member

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    Sorry for the long post. Have a safe Thanksgiving!
     
  10. breacher

    breacher Member

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    Personally I would not give one thin dime to Piazza. Google him and lawsuit. He ripped off many people with the shooting country club- community scam. WTF is a "3 Gun Combat Master" or whatever he calls himself anyways. Pure ego.

    Been to a bunch of classes at Thunder Ranch and Gunsite. You can't go wrong with either of those two. And there's no infomercials at lunch time.

    (I was a USAF SpecOps Weapons School instructor for a couple years and local LE SWAT for 6 years so I have done a little shooting)
     
  11. Six Toed Slim

    Six Toed Slim New Member

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    Hate to resurrect such an old thread. Looking at heading there this September. A friend of mine wants me to visit his new place in AZ and then we are going up to Vegas for the course. I am experienced but he is a bit of a noob, I am hoping that he can keep up. Tempting to bring my M40 as a backup, but would rather use a 9mm for all this at this point.