FN 5-7 / PS 90

Discussion in 'Other Handguns' started by Shooter, Mar 18, 2007.

  1. Shooter

    Shooter Premium Member

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    Wow, got to shoot the FN 5-7 pistol saturday. Barely any recoil and impressive. Twenty round mags with 30 round possible. My friend also had just acquired the PS 90 carbine. He didn't bring it to the range but I did get to check it out at his house and it too was awesome. Considering the possibility of democratic leadership I would certainly consider getting them before they become unatainable. I would consider the 223 FS2000 too. I think I would consider that over the Steyr depending on the price. Has anyone had any experience with the FS2000??? Anyone interested in a shotgun should definately look into the FN series shotgun. He had a new one of these too... :oops: (that should be a jealous face..) and it was smooth and according to my buddy had at least 25% less recoil then the Bennelli..........BTW, ammunition for the 5-7 is about as much as a 357Sig.................
     
  2. smores

    smores Guest

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    I'm a big fan of both guns. I LOVE the P90. I had an airsoft version a few years ago, and I loved the ergonomics, and the overall feel of the gun. The feature of semi-auto fire by pulling the trigger part way, then full auto all the way back (like the AUG ;) ) is awesome. Of course the PS-90 is only semi.

    The shop I usually go to has a couple up on the wall. The holo sight is something to behold, especially when you cradle it up to your shoulder. Somehow the PS-90 is comforting to hold. I am also impressed by the Five-seveN pistol. I love the placement of the safety, and overall feel of the gun. 20 rounds in a magazine flush with the grip isn't bad either in such a small gun.

    If only the ammo were less expensive.................
     

  3. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    Or as effective as 9mm...........

    Sorry, I couldn't resist :twisted:. Both weapon systems make great (albeit way too expensive) range toys and show pieces, but I just couldn't carry the 5.7x28mm cartridge with confidence.
     
  4. I couldn't carry the 5.7 Pistol, but the PS90 gets the job done with more than enough velocity to make the 5.7x28mm round a superior round to FMJ 9mm.

    I have an FN PS90 and it is my low profile SHTF weapon and under the bed for home defense (although Steyr MA140 is on the night stand) 50 rounds of SS196 goodness.
     
  5. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    I won't knock the PS90 so much, though there is a reason why the majority of the agencies that were all hot and bothered by the introduction have sinced moved on to ARs. Even out of the PS90, the 5.7 usually lands at 10" in jello - that just doesn't float my boat. But still, the P(S)90 weapon system definitely has some merits - SBR'd, it'd make a helluva PDW if you couldn't carry something bigger. Limited application, but fills a niche, nonetheless.
     
  6. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    Even if the Five-Seven pistol only penetrates half the gelatin of the PS90, five inches sounds adequate to me. I don't want to shoot through somebody, I just want enough power to take the foe out of action and neutralize the threat. The 5.7x28 is a short, stubby version of the .223 (.224) and few would argue with its killing power.

    The whole concept of a .224 round at eye-popping velocity with virtually no recoil from a pistol that holds 20 rounds per clip sounds like one helluva carry weapon to me. I could see how you could use it like in the "Shootdown Drill" in the current Guncrank Diaries in American Handgunner.

    Guncrank says the drill is not to stop shooting when you think he's dead, but to keep shooting until he knows he's dead. I would think 20 rapid-fire rounds of .224 would convince even Godzilla that he was really dead.

    My only problem with the Five-Seven pistol is I don't have 900 bucks to lay down on the counter at the FN dealer.
     
  7. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    And your 5" of penetration is going to get you one pissed off bad-guy who has more reason and more motivation to kill you when your bullet barely has the wallop to punch through his arm and maybe lands 1" inside his chest. The 5.7x28mm does not achieve the bare minimum requirement to be able to consistently penetrate deep enough to hit vitals. That means your bullet can not consistently be gauranteed to even potentially force immediate incapacitation, short of a head shot/lucky CNS shot. You are making a conscious decision to handicap yourself and carry a weapon system that will only cause incapacitation if you get the perfect shot, under ideal circumstances, or if the target is predisposed to collapsing upon being shot. Seems to me you might be better off carrying a taser, Netfotoj, if 5" is "more than enough" penetration for you. And I know that no one likes getting shot, and people usually lose the will to fight when it's their blood on the pavement. We can't carry rifles, so we carry cartridges that are portable and already seriously underpowered. That doesn't mean I'm willing to trust one of the smallest and most anemic catridges in the available class to keep myself and my loved ones safe.

    And if you ask about the weapon system virtually anywhere, the vast majority are going to tell you the same thing - it was a noble effort, but a failed one. To say "few would argue with its killing power" is just plain false - the overwhelming majority will argue (with terminal ballistic facts on their side) that it lacks the ability to even wound adequately, let alone kill. Our goal is to do the job as fast as possible with the fewest number of required shots - sure, I could shoot a guy 20 times with my fancy wiz-bang 5.7, and sure - he can lose 20% of his blood in a few minutes and pass out, and sure he can die from blood loss a few minutes after that, but how much damage can he do before that first few minutes pass and he loses consciousness, and why even risk it? Just carry something capable of doing the job in the first shot, or first few, instead of having to empty a mag to get gauranteed results.

    The terminal ballistics are almost identical to the .22 WMR. It's a good thing recoil is non-existant and magazine capacity is pretty high up there - I would count on needing most of it. There are three kinds of people who would carry 5.7x28mm - those who would be just as comfortable carrying a .22LR, or those who are completely ignorant about the terminal ballistics of the cartridge, and those who have played too much Counter Strike and -know- the 5.7 is the hammer of Thor and everyone else is just plain wrong, despite the facts.

    The only application where the 5.7 may have an edge over anything else on the market is when body armor comes into play, but even then, the SS190 round is LEO only. The SS192 and SS195 are reported to punch second chance vests, but if the bullet can barely punch 10" of jello by itself, how much energy is going to be left after punching kevlar? You better hope that 5" is good enough - the 5.7x28mm is reported to have 80 Joules (59 ft.-lbs.) of energy left after punching a vest. Oops, so much for energy/hydrostatic shock. And SS192/195 is becoming more and more scarce by the day - the latest and greatest SS196 and SS197 rounds won't even punch body armor. The 31gr. SS190 FMJ bullet almost has adequate penetration @ 10", but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity - the energy just isn't there to duplicate the wounding effects of a .223 fired from a rifle. And even though the SS190 (and possibly 192/195) penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is, AT BEST, like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound, and we're all aware of the fabulous track record the M882 ball is getting for incapacitation potential over in the sand box. In fact, if one is truly concerned about the threat of a armor-clad BG, they would be better off carrying something like 7.62x25 Tokarev in a CZ52 or something - still punches armor, and it's not a .22. Of course you'll never see the Tokarev being used on Counter Strike, Stargate, or some other Sci-Fi show/game, but sometimes we must sacrifice sexy for utility.

    And personally, I think the ergo's suck, the sights suck, and the thing is about the most awkward pistol I've ever shot. It's about like carrying a 1911 with half the weight, twice the capacity, and still 1/8th the firepower. And we won't even get started on the price of ammo...

    Standard over-the-counter quality JHP 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP loads crush more tissue, offer ideal penetration, and are equally likely to not exit the opponent as the 5.7x28mm. And when carrying a long gun or PDW becomes an option, the 5.56mm and 6.8mm weapons offer significantly superior terminal effects compared to 5.7mm. So what does the P90 really bring to the table that isn't already there?

    I'm really not arguing that no one should own one - like I said, it's a great show piece and a fun plinker if you don't mind the ammo costs. But I do think that carrying one is a grievous error and I want you guys to at least be informed about what the cartridge is capable of, instead of just limiting your research to what is posted n FN's website. :)
     
  8. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    For a PDW, I'd take a Steyr TMP over a P90 any day.

    My dealer has the FS2000, and it certainly is cool-looking, but I haven't shot it. I'd take a suppressed FS2000 over the P90 for a PDW as well, even though it's too big. Hell, a shorty M4 would beat a P90.
     
  9. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    You're quite right, Syntax, my info on the FN Five-Seven pistol is based entirely on what I've read. Never seen one and certainly never shot one. I bow to your personal experience and obvious first-hand expertise.

    I'll gladly mark that one off my "want" list. Easy for me to say, I didn't have $900 in the first place but if I should come into some cash, I certainly won't waste it on this novelty pistol.

    As for the .223's lethality, I was referring to the AR-15/M-16 rifle round, not the .224/5.7x28 pistol round. Obviously from the statistics you've cited, the two are not to be compared in any way in the real world.

    Thanks for the info. Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to spending hard-earned bucks on weapons. :mrgreen:
     
  10. squirrelpotpie

    squirrelpotpie Premium Member

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    hmm, sounds like another jello fight a brewin...

    time to lean back in my chair with my two shot wonder across my lap and suggest that while little lead pellets might not penetrate much they can be mighty discouragin and I suspect dumping a magazine full of .22 caliber pieces of metal into somebody oughta be a good deterrent too.

    course they might lack the one whack stopping power of a lead pipe upside the head or a 4th of july ships cannon but I reckon they would suffice.
     
  11. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    My pleasure :D Couldn't have said it better myself. I spent a lot of time trying to believe the 5.7x28mm was the magic bullet, but no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't wrap my reality around the hard facts. Just trying to save some folks from wasting money, or worse...


    And for squrrelpotpie...
    I could care less how discouraging my rounds are - I'm not looking for a deterrent, I'm looking for immediate incapacitation. Stun guns and wicked blades are discouraging - God willing, they'll be on the ground before they have a chance to be discouraged if I do my job and my bullets penetrate adequately.
     
  12. squirrelpotpie

    squirrelpotpie Premium Member

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    good point.