Ending the Gun Control Debate

Discussion in 'The Soap Box' started by regulatedmilitia, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. regulatedmilitia

    regulatedmilitia New Member

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    Im sure everyone here agrees when it comes to gun rights vs gun control so I'm not going to go into what my views are. I also know that anti gunners don't really care about safety. But I was doing some thinking and a little research and I think I came up with a solution that both sides could agree on and could kick the legs from under the gun control argument. Follow me on this then weigh in your opinions.

    Part of the reason that we are in this debate is because no one is looking at it from the right point of view. Put yourself in the mind of a young man in the middle of Chicago, New York, Los Angeles or any high violent crime area in America. Lets say your 19, so your not old enough to purchase a handgun and you know that your so called enemies have guns and have shot at you and your homies before. What do you do? Well you could obey the law and be a guaranteed victim any day now or you could acquire a firearm and level the playing field. Now when weighing the options and looking at the pros and cons the decision becomes a no brainer. You get a gun to protect yourself. Why? Because the other guys have guns and if you get caught by the police your looking at 6 months to 5 years in prison depending on where you live.

    And their lies the problem. Ask any person with an ounce of common sense to make a choice between 5 years in jail or death, what do you think they will choose? Illegal possession of a firearm should have harsher punishment and the number of gun deaths will plummet. Same scenario but now looking at 25 to life penalty with more time added for every round in the magazine and our 19 year old friend starts thinking twice before illegally arming himself. Enacting harsh punishment will not infringe on any of us law abiding citizen while at the same time making our streets safer because the criminals wont want to face the consequence of being caught. Now I know this is not absolute and you will have some members of the criminal element that will still aquire and use illegal firearms but the majority of the senseless murders happening are by small time thugs who aren't engaged in criminal activity that would warrant a lifetime prison sentence to begin with.

    So what do you think? Could over the top punishment curb gun violence in America?
     
  2. jhb

    jhb Member

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    Maybe, but you are assuming those who want and use illegal firearms will or have read up on the mountains of laws to know what they are up against. laws seem to have little impact on illegal gun trade, and harsher sentencing hasnt curbed drugs any to at all.
     

  3. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Moderator

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    I don't think so - I don't honestly believe that measures of deterrence are very effective at all. Instead, I think we'd just end up with more and more young lives wasted away behind bars with us taxpayers footing the bill. The problem isn't guns at all - this problem fundamentally stems from a culture of violence. So long as there are young men itching to kill one another, they will find a way; the consequences associated with the tools may not even receive any consideration whatever.

    Taking Chicago as an example - the problem isn't firearms, it's completely systemic. Everything in that city is broken - the political system, the educational system, all the way on down to the broken homes. Harsher penalties for illegal possession of a firearm isn't a solution at all, because it totally fails to address the real issue - that is, the reason that kid wants/needs to carry a gun in the first place.
     
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  4. regulatedmilitia

    regulatedmilitia New Member

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    Point taken. I dont think that they wake up in the morning saying to them self "who am I gonna kill today?" mostly I think they get guns for status purpose within their gang to look cool and have influence over their peers. When faced with an altercation its easier to pull a gun then to get in a fist fight. My theory was that If they knew that carrying a gun could get them the same result as using it would stop them from acquiring it in the first place.
     
  5. Two Mikes

    Two Mikes Member

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    Your penalty has been tried in various forms. It doesn't work. Criminals don't give a sh*t about gun laws and seemingly don't care about jail time either. Violent criminals' brains aren't wired like law-abiding people. Penalties do not enter into their thinking.

    There is one way to reduce crime dramatically, more guns, in more places, carried more often by more people. Shall Not Be Infringed works. The facts are that gun-control increases violent crime.
     
  6. ETH77

    ETH77 Premium Member

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    Like the other posters, it isn't about guns, it's about control.

    In the '50s it was switchblades, then in the '60s it was zipguns. Listen to "Bad, Bad, Mr. Leroy Brown." Before switchblades there were straight razors. The vast majority of killing is done by gangs. There's an interesting study by, IIRCC Yale, showing that in Chicago, ~90% of the shootings involve either gang members or someone hanging with gang members. Removing yourself from that lifestyle drops your probability of being shot 57% for every decrease in connectivity. Getting to a status of a friend of a friend of a friend of a gangsta, drops your probability of being shot to 17% of being shot, distancing yourself one more level and you're down to 10%.
     
  7. khoff

    khoff New Member

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    I am completely AGAINST mandatory minimum sentences ! They are a complete waste and serve no purpose but to fill prisons with innocent poor people !
     
  8. schgsd

    schgsd Member

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    Gang and criminal culture glorifies the violence, puts it on display, songs get written about it and at least in part continues to occur because no one stops it. This country is broken from the top down.

    But if we could:

    1) Take RegulatedMilitias suggestion and Khoffs dislike for prisons full of idiots completely over the top.
    2) Put a symbol on the license/ID of every legal gun owner in the US, a second also if legal for concealed carry.
    And tfb to the peoples republic of anti-gun states, federal law trumps state law so it becomes universal all 50 states.

    Make it mandatory immediate death to anyone in possession of a gun that can't legally own one. Submit GoPro video and ID of terminated individuals to LE within 24 hours.
    For those who don't like the vigilante route, it could be modified to hold and call for LE to dispatch the problem.

    I bet a number of densely populated areas in this country would become ghost towns pretty quick.
     
  9. ThorInc

    ThorInc New Member

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    Firearms(Canadian here :)) = $$$$$$$

    The industry will continue to defend against any regulation or restriction as it should. It is up to the public where the line should be drawn but business WILL BE REPRESENTED, hopefully not exclusively.
     
  10. WARFAB

    WARFAB New Member

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    I figured I'd throw in my $.02 from my position in New Yorkistan. Basically I agree with the OP that penalties need to be harsher for gun crimes, but I don't think adding new harsher minimum sentences to the books is necessary.

    Anyone know what percentage of the "gun crimes" are committed by repeat offenders? The anti-gun mindset is usually pretty closely associated with the mindset that criminals are victims of society. Before we talk about increasing minimum sentences for gun crimes, we first need to start enforcing what's on the books already. It could just be the crazy backwards world of New York state, but often judges and prosecutors will cut deals and show leniency to real criminals while the state passes new firearms restrictions that only impact law abiding citizens. While Joe taxpayer tries to hold down a job to support a family and mortgage, the powers that be are talking about using Joe taxpayer's money to pay for college educations for New York State prison inmates. I know some LEO's who are frustrated with their jobs because they keep running into the same criminals over and over and over again and the court system refuses to offer anything more than a slap on the wrist.

    Things be crazy.
     
  11. Andromeda451

    Andromeda451 New Member

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    Hi,

    I live in the state of Arizona. Open and concealed carry are both legal and protected. Initially I was against concealed carry then the legislature made it legal and guess what? Violent crime rates went down YoY, and not by a small amount. Why is that? One may ask, the reason is simple: If everyone is armed you gotta be polite. I'm not being flippant here. When seconds count LEOs are minutes to hours away in AZ and citizens must rely on their own means of defense. A proper society protects the weak and innocents and crushes crime. take one look at Chicago, >1500 killings so far this year and Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the USA. The Politicians can pander all they want and "protect" the people but in essence it is ALL posturing. If law abiding citizens in Chicago were armed and protected by the law that the pols think is so glorious, crime, especially violent crime rates would drop like a rock. Just ignore the mouthpieces and their monolithic pandering speech and look at the data.
    But since most politicians are lawyers and don't really have to live like the common man they will never understand that a comprehensive set of legislation, that includes retaining the right of legal carry with protections from civil lawsuits along with federalizing all capital crimes to remove the spectre of prosecutorial misconduct would drive crime rates down and perpetrators behind bars.
    Sorry to be so long winded.
     
  12. Andromeda451

    Andromeda451 New Member

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    Hi,

    I live in the state of Arizona. Open and concealed carry are both legal and protected. Initially I was against concealed carry then the legislature made it legal and guess what? Violent crime rates went down YoY, and not by a small amount. Why is that? One may ask, the reason is simple: If everyone is armed you gotta be polite. I'm not being flippant here. When seconds count LEOs are minutes to hours away in AZ and citizens must rely on their own means of defense. A proper society protects the weak and innocents and crushes crime. take one look at Chicago, >1500 killings so far this year and Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the USA. The Politicians can pander all they want and "protect" the people but in essence it is ALL posturing. If law abiding citizens in Chicago were armed and protected by the law that the pols think is so glorious, crime, especially violent crime rates would drop like a rock. Just ignore the mouthpieces and their monolithic pandering speech and look at the data.
    But since most politicians are lawyers and don't really have to live like the common man they will never understand that a comprehensive set of legislation, that includes retaining the right of legal carry with protections from civil lawsuits along with federalizing all capital crimes to remove the spectre of prosecutorial misconduct would drive crime rates down and put perpetrators behind bars.
    Sorry to be so long winded.
     
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  13. SurfGent

    SurfGent Member

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    It's a slippery slope. Pretty soon you could loose your right to own guns for not returning a library book. Thats the way it works they eat elephants one bite at a time. Im against any law's limiting guns in anyway for anyone. Sounds harsh maybe , but your asking for people's opinions
     
  14. SurfGent

    SurfGent Member

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    And in reference to Andromeda451 i live in AZ as well, Hailing originally from East Oakland CA. And my experience has been the criminal element is very much more subdued, as well im not afraid to travel anywhere in this state were back home you needed to be very careful when and where you went. Even down to the local corner market, sometimes putting your life on the line to pick up some milk or beer ect. I absolutely DO NOT not want to shoot anyone, but now unless the guy is suicidal I feel in no way threatened to go about my business
     
  15. Andromeda451

    Andromeda451 New Member

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    Then it sounds like we are in violent agreement.
     
    SurfGent likes this.