Docter Red Dot

Discussion in 'Maintenance / Tweaks / Technical Difficulties / So' started by asdzxc, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. asdzxc

    asdzxc Guest

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    it is about Docter Red Dot
    [​IMG]

    model: Trijicon Docter Red Dot Scope Reflex Sight 3.5 MOA MS01

    i am thinking to buy one red dot for my Steyr and this one looks very nice, i am out of money currently but with the next paycheck i hope i will get it.

    the questions are:
    1) is it possible to use this Red Dot without changeing stuff on my precious gun.
    2) is this the best choice of red dot price/quality on the market? i have readed some great reviews about this one, but some people are discussing the high price. that for this price you can get 2 red dots :)
    3) is it fun shooting with red dot? i have never tryed it, but it seems fun.
    4) can i personaly fit it into my Steyr, or should i go to gun guy?

    i looked around this forum, but i only sow suggestions of people to get red dot, didnt see if anyone is actualy using it.

    p.s. i posted this in another forum but i think it was not question for there 'Tweaks' sounds more like it
    p.p.s. please forgive my poor english
     
  2. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    been waiting for someone else to chime in.

    everyone i know is using a C-mor, but they're all sitting on open/unlimited race guns (ubiquitous 1911/2011).

    i can't say to have ever seen someone shooting a polymer gun with a screen up top.

    gary's gonna have to with his ports though, maybe he knows more about it.
     

  3. Shooter

    Shooter Premium Member

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    well, you can do a trial run with a sight like these for $50.00. Then if it works for you, keep it (may die, may not), or get the expensive on. I have been checking on these types of sights for a while too for the AR/AK setup. So far I've found Burris, JP, and some cheap ones as alternatives. I just orderd the cheap one for my 22 Trailside from Sportsmansguide. If it works well enough, good enough... :think: You are probably going to need a mount. Doubt any that are made for Steyr. Sounds like you may need a gunsmith to modify one of the others to fit.....unless your handy.....But the Dr. is pretty pricey. I think the Burris is getting goods grade for less $$$$
     
  4. Shooter

    Shooter Premium Member

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    Probably why Midway is backordered on 90% of the C mores...... :wall: Wanted one RIGHT NOW !!!!! for the AK. Might go to OKO or ATN............ :think:
     
  5. Garys4598

    Garys4598 Premium Member

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    bigtaco -- Are you referring to me?

    If so, due to the location where Mag-na-port cut my ports, any kind of sight or optic could be used with the Steyr MA1 and the flash from the ports would not interfere or obscure the sight picture whatsoever.

    I've been watching this thread myself... because I happen to have a Docter red-dot which I somewhat recently purchased off of eBay and which is sitting up on a shelf doing nothing. My intent was to have it mounted on my semi-auto shotgun.... but the thought of mounting it to my M40-A1 keeps nagging at me.

    It's my understanding that most folks don't opt for the Docter red-dots because of price.... they are the most expensive. But, it's also my understanding that at the present time their red-dot sight (screen-up type) is without question the most robust and reliable, which is why I purchased it. I'm kinda funny that O' way... :wink:
     
  6. nalioth

    nalioth New Member

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  7. asdzxc

    asdzxc Guest

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    thanks for that link mate, i am gonna talk with the guy there and i hope they can ship that one to Bulgaria

    its not so much the price that bothers me, its the mounting

    if i buy it and i cant mount it, i will be really really angry
    i have been looking on all sites i found docter mounts (and other red dot mounts), and i just cant be sure i will be able to mount it on my m9-a1
    Gary can you tell me your plan on mounting it on your M40? are you gonna use custom made mount?
    if i remove my current Tritium sight, should i be able to mount the standart mount in the hole?
     
  8. Garys4598

    Garys4598 Premium Member

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    asdzxc -- I am not sure that I will in fact mount my Docter red dot onto my Steyr M40-A1... I only mentioned or implied that I keep contemplating doing so.

    For all I know there isn't a Docter red dot mount (or some aftermarket product) that exists which would allow me to put the turkey in place of the rear sights.

    But ummm.... If I decide to go this route, the lack of existance of this particular mounting part wouldn't likely prove to be a "show-stopper" for me.

    :p
     
  9. asdzxc

    asdzxc Guest

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    look what i found :) it fits Steyr like it was made for it :)
    [​IMG]


    i am very happy, now the only thing to decide is between docter and RDP-II mini, they both look very nice and people say very nice things about them.

    thanks to all who replyed
     
  10. Garys4598

    Garys4598 Premium Member

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    Well... I submit that if you wanted to do it THE BEST POSSIBLE WAY with a Docter red dot, you would opt have your Steyr's slide CNC machine cut as exemplified by the following:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Photos taken from the Docter USA website located here: http://www.docterusa.com/_mgxroot/page_10776.html

    And for those that may be interested in pursuing something like this, I just got off the telephone with the representative from Docter USA and as a ball park figure, he said a CNC cut and Docter red dot fitting runs approximately $230.00 (mind you, that's only for the CNC machining). He made it very clear to me that they had never CNC cut or fitted a Steyr MA1-series, and therefore they would need to evaluate the pistol's slide, etc., to determine if or how it should be cut. BUT, since he is already doing Glocks, I don't foresee any of that being a significant issue for them.


    So.... naturally for me (considering all the other hockey-puck crap I am doing to my M40-A1), this may actually be worthwhile.... like, I already have a Docter red dot sight sitting up on my shelf not doing a darned thing....

    :lol: ..... :lol: ..... :lol: ..... :lol:

    ~Gary
     
  11. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    Thats some purty durn fancy azz modifying there, Gary....

    She sure is gonna be fun ta shoot when you get all done dressin her up....

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
     
  12. Shooter

    Shooter Premium Member

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    that's very cool............. :clap: good find asdxc
     
  13. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    omg... that's it... i'm going to have to start sucking in open division!!! that just looks like too much fun!!!

    when is steyr shipping the 17 rounders? think i can machine a +3 baseplate?
     
  14. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    You could go the Wulf Sigma route... that lets me squeeze in 18+1 on the 9mm...
     
  15. Garys4598

    Garys4598 Premium Member

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    I don't know... Is it just me? Or, do many of the gunsmiths out there suffer from some form of friggen bi-polar personality disease or whatever?

    :wall: ..... :wall: ........... :doh:

    I telephoned Docter USA today to begin coordinating to have my M40-A1's slide CNC milled to accept a Docter red dot. Mind you, I went into this telephone conversation with Mr. Dean Makkos of Docter USA with a base understanding that CNC milling a Steyr slide may very well be possible, based on the telephone conversation I had with Mr. Makkos over approximately a week ago (reference my post made in this thread, dated Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:57 am). Well... Mr. Makkos sang an entirely different tune to me today.

    Based on my telephone conversation with him today, he won't even consider CNC milling a Steyr M-A1 series slide because of "liability issues" and because they have never done this to a Steyr pistol before. Naturally, my thoughts were, "WTF has changed since last week when you clearly indicated to me that it may be possible to do this sort of thing... and now today, you don't even want to entertain the notion of it???!!!" But of course, my verbal response to him was not in that manner.

    So, today he tells me that for approx $55.00 he can send me a base mount for the Docter red dot that would need to be taken to a professional gunsmith to be "fitted" in place of my Steyr's rear sight. In other words, a contraption set-up essentially identical to the photo that asdzxc posted within this thread.

    What do you guys think, should I force the issue with Mr. Makkos??? Tell him I don't give a rats-arse regarding 'liability' and that he's is welcomed to experiment on my M40-A1 with his CNC milling to attempt to get the Docter red dot to fit????


    :wall:
     
  16. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    I wouldn't be real gung-ho to send my newly ported slide that probably cannot be replaced off to some guy that doesn't want to work on it... I would get the mount from him and have a local smith throw it together - you will probably experience a faster turn-around going this route, anyway...
     
  17. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    How much 'extra' height is added with the $55 method as opposed to milling the slide?

    Unless the difference is huge, I personally would like the idea of having a local gunsmith custom fit a mount where the rear sight normally sits, without modifying the weapon....

    ...but, hey, thats just me....

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
     
  18. Garys4598

    Garys4598 Premium Member

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    Syntax360 -- In spirit, I wholeheartedly agree with you; better to NOT send the pistol to someone that really doesn't want to work on it. The problem or challenge of course becomes "location, location, LOCATION" and ease of access (whether via email or telephone) concerning finding gunsmiths that have a reasonable degree of "experience" with specific aftermarket components, not to mention the cotton-picken base firearm platform (e.g., the Steyr M-A1).

    babj615 -- I don't know the answer to your question... but perhaps I'll know more in approximately two weeks time.

    OKAY; so here is "the rest of the story"... (please, pull up your seat and sit for a while... as I share all that I just experienced during the course of the last hour).

    Per Mr. Dean Makkos recommendation (reference my telephone conversation with him earlier this morning), I sent off an email to him at [email protected] approximatley an hour and a half ago, in which I further inquired about a dove-tail Docter mount for a handgun that I wished to purchase. Within this email I expressed with Dean my dismay and disheartenment regarding his "change of position" from last week to this week.... and my perception of his unwillingness to take a risk; to experiment with a Steyr M-A1.

    An hour later I receive a telephone call from Dean (no kidding) and after reading my email he was much more willing to discuss things with me; to provide me his full viewpoint on the potential challenges of CNC milling a Steyr M-A1 to accept a Docter red dot. So, after approximately a fifteen minute conversation, here is the "bottom line:" It is simply NOT economically feasible for him to figure out and adapt the programming on his CNC mill machine to accommodate a Steyr slide. Not economically feasible or reasonable... for only one Steyr M-A1 pistol slide. After mentioning to Dean that there were a handful of guys on the SteyrClub.com forum watching my progress toward this end... and that they may be interested in pursuing this as well. Dean said he would do it for me IF there were a total of eleven others (i.e., "twelve of us") that would want this performed to our Steyr M-A1 slides. Otherwise, it's a NO-GO for him. He conveyed all this in the nicest of ways. (I additionally learned from him that regardless as to how I might mount my Docter red dot on the pistol's slide, because I have an "older Docter red dot"... which he was able to verify by my providing him the serial number off the Docter... that I would need to send the red dot to him to have it completely refurbished and upgraded; rebuilt to take the stresses of being mounted to a pistol slide. So.... off goes my Docter red dot in the mail tomorrow, with an accompanying check made out in the tune of $189.... :wall:)

    When I shared with Dean Makkos that I was going to have my M40-A1 sent to Scott Springer of Springer Precision LLC... well THAT bit of information prompted Dean to immediately convey, "Hey, I know Scott and he is already CNC milling Springfield XDs' slides to accept Docter red dots, so I can't think of a better or more experienced person that you might send your pistol to, to have this sort of thing investigated. If it can be done I'm sure Scott will be able to figure it out." So, I thank Mr. Makkos, informed him that my red dot optic would be enroute to him for rebuild this week, and shared with him that I would immediately contact Scott Springer.

    I hung up the telephone with Dean... and then telephoned Scott.

    It was readily evident to me in short order, that Scott and Dean in fact do know each other pretty well. Anyway (in an attempt to make this story short), when my M40-A1 arrives at Spring Precision LLC, Scott is going to take a very hard look at it and determine whether or not it would be worth the risk pursuing a CNC machining of the pistol's slide to accept a Docter red dot optic. For everyone's edification, according to both Dean and Scott, arguably the single biggest issue pursuing such an endeavor on the Steyr or any semi-auto hangun is determining whether any "firing pin safety mechanisms" would be screwed-up or become non-fuctional, due to the slide's cutting at the hands of a CNC machine. Me, I don't know squat about all that... but I'm sure there are several of you out there reading this, that know whether or not such a problem could exist for the Steyr M-A1 pistols. WOULD YOU PLEASE POST A REPLY IF YOU KNOW???? Thanks!

    So... that's about the size of things. My pistol will be heading to Springer Precision tomorrow via FedEx, and my Docter red dot will be headed in the opposite geographical direction; to Florida and Docter USA for a rebuild. I'll be crossing my fingers that Scott decides to make an attempt at CNC milling my slide to accept the Docter red dot optic. If not.... he does have on hand the dove-tail optic mounts for the Docter optic that slide in place of the Steyr's OEM rear sight.

    After all this.... I simply don't know whether I will be interested in that sort of set-up (unlike babj615)... I really had my heart set on the CNC mill installation which would get the optic down low and close to the slide.

    Sorry if I stole your thread asdzxc.
     
  19. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    first of all, i'm utterly amazed that any electronic device can stand up to the repeated pounding of a handgun's recoil stroke. but i guess that's why THEY build dr. red dots and I don't :D

    i didn't mind the look of the dovetail mount.

    the good news is that you were already sending it to scott. can't wait to hear what he says.
     
  20. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    There is no firing pin block on the Steyr pistols - the "safety" is the inherent quality of being pre-cocked at a % of load that has been (presumably) deemed safe. In the event of a catastrophic failure which resulted in the firing pin being released from it's pre-cocked state, it should not have enough momentum to detonate a normal primer.

    The LCI may be "in the way", but if that is the case, I would personally just have it removed - the new (euro) M-A1's do not even come with one. That aside, you ought to be fine...