CHL Class Embarrassment

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by ThaiBoxer, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    I went to an NRA CHL class yesterday. It involved shooting 100 rds at about 7 yds, in 5 shot strings. Took my Steyr M40. Took only my M40, despite my intentions to bring a backup pistol.

    The M40 has been 100% reliable, until about a month ago when I had one (1) FTE, in which the empty remained in the chamber. Nothing more in the following 100 rounds.

    A week ago I decided to remove and clean the extractor and that area. I read about how the extractor can be a problem. I removed and cleaned, which it needed, and got everything back together OK.

    Sunday I went to the CHL class. I encountered 1 FTE roughly every 5 rds or so. The extractor moved fine, appeared intact. I tried switching ammo, to no avail. Then I tried a quick chamber brushing followed by a chamber bore mop. No improvement. Cursing and clearing each stoppage, I still finished the course of fire. I took the gun to a cleaning room, and removed the extractor. I thought it looked fine. A Glock armorer and another "gun store counter guy" both thought the extractor looked fine, and that the chamber just needed a good cleaning. That sounded reasonable, so I spent some time and really buffed out the inside, then went back for a function test. It FTE'd on rd 7. Rackin-fracken futher-#$%^%$!!!

    Back to dissassembly. This time I thought the extractor plunger looked a little odd. The top of the plunger is beveled, with a "mini-bevel" on the high spot. The mini-bevel was positioned inside (on the chamber side), with the main bevel facing out, away from the chamber. Hmmm.

    Switched that around and noted that the new position looked "mo betta". I tested with 2 12-rd mags, and it ran perfectly. I need to run a few boxes through to confirm function, of course. If I find no more problems, I'll have some serious words with the dumb mother-%$#&^ who installed the plunger wrong.

    But I'll need to stand in front of the mirror to see him.
    :lol:
    Ben


    D'oh!
    [​IMG]
     
  2. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    Yep. Function test before any important event if you have done anything to the gun.
    Murphy never sleeps.
    I never carry my CCW gun until I have test fired it, even after just a field strip cleaning.
     

  3. Shooter

    Shooter Premium Member

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    :lol: ...........good story Ben !!! loved the ending........... :!:
     
  4. Gray_Wolf

    Gray_Wolf New Member

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    you're talking about the angled 'cut' on the extractor pin right? (it's 1:35am and I'm half asleep had to make sure lol)

    mine is actually all round... :?
     
  5. Deluxe247

    Deluxe247 Supporting Member

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    Yup, the new ones are all rounded. The older ones have the bevels on them. If you don't get them in right it won't work 100%...

    -D
     
  6. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Hmmm... 8-O

    "Got it NIB, thorough cleanin', FTE's!" You may be on to somethin', Thai*. Maybe a new sticky for this scenario? Find out if you have the beveled plunger or the rounded one, first. Check that its appropriately oriented when reassembled. Whataya think, Guys? Are we perhaps lookin' at one of the FTE probs available to us? :roll: FTE guys, plz check it out and let us know.

    Wulf
     
  7. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    actually I was told point blank by steyr that the new rounded cut was simply a minor cost savings to produce vs having to cut the bevel.
     
  8. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    For sure, *Chef

    Its cheaper to not add an additional machining step to a manufactured part. Before Alan Cornett left Steyr, we were in pretty constant communication for several of my M357-A1 projects. He sent me the last 2 beveled plungers that he had and told me to keep 'em safe because they weren't gonna make 'em anymore. My point in my earlier post was if'n ya put the plunger in backwards will that promote the FTE issues syncopathetically. (Damn, is that a real word or is GW gettin' to me. 8-O ) And, if this happens enough that FTE's are happenin' right outta the box then the cure may be to properly install the plunger. Thass all. I haven't had any problems with this seemingly recurring FTE nightmare...I have the beveled plunger but know how to assemble it correctly because I've had it apart so often that its 2nd nature to check to make sure that its right. <shrug> My point is this, for members experiencing FTE's, it may be prudent to check for 2 things: 1) Whether or not they have a beveled plunger and 2) Whether or not its properly installed. End of story. If the factory can make the assembly error its only common sense to think that those of us who aren't Steyre employees could make the same assembly error. Personally, If I had a NIB M or S Series and had FTE's in large quantities right outta the box, that's the first thing I'd check. <shrug> That's all. BTW, something else that Alan mentioned was the fact that the brass in the face issues were noted and a fix on the way. Whataya think that fix is? I haven't talked with Alan since he left SAI, but that hangin' statement haunts me still. <shrug> Hava good one, *Chef. :)

    Wulf
     
  9. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    In review: I had installed the extractor plunger the wrong orientation, and it cause 1 in 5 FTE at my CHL class. I fixed the plunger, test fired 24 rounds, and it looked OK. So I needed to shoot more to prove it was fixed.

    Here's an update:

    On Thursday I took the Steyr out for 50 rounds of Wolf and 50 of Remington, both 180 gr truncated FMJ. After about 40 rounds I had an FTE with the empty stuck in the chamber about halfway back. Sumbitch! I finished all 100 rounds and had 3 more of these. My luck with guns is always bad.

    OK. The 1 in 5 FTE was my fault, and due to MY screw-up in mispositioning the extractor plunger. Turning the plunger around to its intended position fixed that. Now we are back to the original problem. Remember, this used gun ran flawlessly for me for about 500 rounds, so when I had the first FTE with a case stuck in the chamber making for a totally tied-up gun, I was shaken and that's why I pulled and cleaned the extractor in the first place.

    So, I read about the boosted "spring in a spring", and sent my SASE to scottpoole who had offered his extra spring. In the meantime I called Steyr Arms Inc, and talked to Jeff, he suggested I send my low serial number in for the trigger upgrade and they'd fix it. I think mine is already upgrqaded. In the meantime, the spring Scott sent arrived. I fitted it inside the extractor spring, and heck I even got the plunger in the right way ;). Then today (Sunday) I went to the range and shot 100 rounds of Wolf followed by half box of Speer Gold Dot.

    Flawless performance.
     
  10. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    also worthy of note is that many people report problems with wolf ammo. and historically many member are 50/50 on umc.

    so if your steyr won't run those ammos, don't worry about it, just buy other ammo.

    wolf use to coat their brass with crap that would pretty quickly build up in the chamber. the newer wolf is "better"

    i also notice much tighter grouping with 165 gr. bullets. have you compared these with the 180's? just wondering.
     
  11. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    I haven't shot anything other than 180 gr in the "blasting ammo" category, I don't think. I was going to buy some 155 gr Miwall TMJ, but it was sold out. All of my shooting with M40 has been "combat style" at varying ranges up to about 20 yards and has been excellent, I have not done any bullseye shooting at 25 yds to wring it out, I probably should. Good practice in any case.

    Ben
     
  12. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    The only thing I would think of putting Wolf ammo in is an AK (and have never actually done it yet). The melting lacquer from the Wolf after the chamber gets heated up can cause problems of the type you describe. CCI Blazer, WWB, UMC, or American Eagle do not cost that much more than Wolf to risk gooing up your gun with the lacquer.
     
  13. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    Yes. The Wolf .22 ammo made by SK is excellent. The .223 62 gr HP I have shoots well, functions perfectly, and was cheap. I bough 500 rds each of .45 and .40, but I don't think I'll get it again. I've started ordering Miwall reloads for range time.
     
  14. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    Update: Another 100 rounds of Wolf down the pipe since adding the 1911 spring.

    Flawless performance.

    Almost out of Wolf and have some new brass case reload coming.
     
  15. ThaiBoxer

    ThaiBoxer Active Member

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    Update: Went to my first Steel Challenge, with Steyr M40 and 200 rounds of Wolf.

    After about 100 rounds I had FTE stoppages. One of them was so bad it needed a dowell rod and hammer to tap it out. Frickin Wolf ammo. Did not cause this problem in my .45. The 4 stoppages added about 30 seconds to my time, which would have put me in a tie to overall second place, depending on how they shook out. I was furious, and after the match I took the last of the Wolf ammo (about 40 rounds) and machine-gunned it out of the Steyr.

    I had not one problem then, of course. :twisted:

    Finished second in my class, and 5th of 12 overall. No way I'll catch the top guy, he seriously shoots in IPSC and Steel, but nipping at the heels of the #2 guy. Without the FTE stoppages, I would have been 1st or seconds in the SSP class, and 2nd or 3rd overall. I missed more than I expected, trying to be fast. Lesson learned.

    I saw a lot of stoppages today, mostly feed jams. The guns that I saw hang up were 2 1911s, 3 Glocks, my Steyr and a Sig. No one seemed exempt, except a guy with a CZ. Frickin' automatic pistols, they give me headache.

    On the upside, I had installed the factory sights last night so I could mail my PTs in for new tritium. Never shot with the traps before, and they were kind of fun. Also, that new Hogue tool grip felt totally righteous. :D

    Ben
     
  16. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    Good idea to dump the Wolf, especially in a refined, and maybe somewhat particular, gun like the Steyr.
     
  17. Shooter

    Shooter Premium Member

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    I'll bet all those stopages with Glocks and Sigs were reloaded ammo these guys were tweeking themselves. 1911's were also tweeked and always have feeding/ejection problems as guys try "tuning" them.....
    Stock Glocks rarely fail......I love that Hogue grip on my Steyr's too.... 8)
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have only had FTE problems with the UMC and only shoot Wolf in my AK, SKS, and sometimes AR(new polymer stuff). It was a little embarrasing until I was able to narrow it down to the ammo. I had given my brother and sister-in-law an M9 since I have 2 others and an S9 which have all been 100%. I told them it was a great, reliable, accurate pistol and one of the best deals around (which I still believe). Anyway, I went down to Houston and had a chance to take her out to the range for her first time with it. The range wouldn't allow the Blazer I normally shoot so we stopped off at Academy for some Blazer brass. No luck so I settled for UMC. Sure enough it was giving her about 2/10 FTE. I tried her M9 and didn't get any in 10 rounds so I thought it was limp-wristing and we worked on her stance and grip. Luckily, I had a box of American Eagle in my bag so I had her switch ammo. Wa-la, 50 rounds, no FTE. I looked at the UMC I had left over when I got home and the OAL was shorter than both AE and Blazer. I "machine-gunned" that off and won't make that mistake again.
     
  19. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    While other people seem to have decent luck with UMC, I only used it a couple of times and stopped because it was such a dirty and high residue ammo.
     
  20. I've always avoided Wolf pistol ammo and have alway stuck with WWB or CCI and I've never had a problem with my M40 other than the initial erratic ejection that smoothed out for me after about 500 rounds or so.

    Wolf is cheap and I'm all about saving money, but really WWB at Wallyworld is pretty cheap and I know it will work. I also am a big fan of .165 gr. and don't really shoot anything else other than that.