Caracal Catastrophic Failure

Discussion in 'Caracal C and F Series' started by babj615, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. AK47

    AK47 New Member

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    +1 to Coolbox on above post.

    And Hi to Steyr Club and all Caracalers here, I've been off since a year by now.

    Anyhow, I'm a member at Pakguns.com too since start. Coolbox is right, do not underestimate the experts at Pakguns.com, nor it's founder. We take weapons and the sports seriously and our expert panel consists of people with a 1.st hand knowledge and even professional occupancy with the very Physics of anything fire-able involved.

    The incident involved was a heart-breaker, coz the Caracal handgun over here was gaining market terrains and becoming the 1.st line of choice for people seeking quality SD coverage at reasonable cost, though still at some $700, as of late.

    The Chinese ammo used is of pretty consistent quality over here, but needs a re-check. I am of the opinion that if the incident discussed is due to ammo related flaws, it wasn't the last round through the barrel that caused this blow up, but rather a bit-by-bit effort by the preceding 250 rounds that the shooter had been using with his Caracal from this same batch. The batch for sure needs to be re-checked.

    I truly hope it's not a metallurgy issue, as that would put many happy Caracal owners around the globe at discomfort with their Caracals, especially if on top of all the other bad luck, the company too cold-shoulders our users over here with no responsible customer support.

    The issue going on over here these days is rather who should test the gun's composition and metallurgy. Our experts insist it be done locally, by some 1.st grade, third hand competency. Caracal wants the handgun from the owner to do their own findings. There's a mistrust gap existing here, as some of us deem that once the gun is out of our hands, anything can be manipulated upon.

    I truly hope they manage some resolve mutually and admin at Pakguns.com, Abbas, is doing great job in bringing the two parties together.

    Thanks God the owner is safe, there's a quick retort going on over here these days - though - that Caracal kills at both ends! Lol!


    Regards.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  2. Talyn

    Talyn New Member

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    Just to add in on the ammo discussion here.

    Don't rule out ammo.

    That failure is pretty bad and I think you would have seen cracks forming and not just a break that easily from 1 shot.


    Now onto the ammo story.

    They are making batches of bad ammo to stop terrorist. Purposely overdosing the powder and mixing in other stuff to make the rounds explode.

    There was a news article about it where a terrorist leader had his AK blow up screwing up his hand.

    They only mess up 1 or 2 rounds in a batch of so many that way it seems okay.

    It might be possible he got this ammo. I don't recall the article saying anything about the MFG, but they showed a round of it in the video where they took it apart and there was more than gun powder in there.


    Just a thought.

    Even a bad part wouldn't just break from that in 1 shot, You'd have noticed it fracturing if there was a defect.
    Well, I would think you would anyways.

    I couldn't suffer though more than one page of that though let alone 11.
     

  3. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Greetings AK*

    By The Will of God, I'm very happy that your Club Brother is recovering from this incident.

    I have read every post on the thread, all 17 pages as of 4 a.m. Mountain Standard Time this morning in the US.

    This issue that you have covered concerning Caracal wanting to study the firearm responsible for the cat-FAILURE is very logical, but IMHO, before it goes back it should be tested by an "Independent and Competent 3rd party" first! Upon completion of the "Independent and Competent 3rd Party testing", it could then be released back to Caracal for their assessment of this incident.

    And, I would of course want to rule-out any possibility of the ammunition being the cause of this cat-FAILURE, tho it doesn't seem likely according to some very competitent Admins at pakguns.com.

    It would make me feel a little uneasy in the event that Caracal not agree to this "Independent and Competent 3rd Party's" assessment of the situation prior to their actually collecting the firearm themselves. <shrug>

    Also, at this time, I would recommend that Steyrclub Caracal C owners keep an ear ta the ground on this thread and please consider safely stowing away your Car* C's pending the outcome of the investigation/s.

    That's what I would do until I had the results and recommendations from credible professionals of the industry.

    Sincerely,

    Wulf <-- hopin' this is the only cat-FAIL that will ever have happen for Caracal shooters :popcorn:



     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  4. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    That strikes me as a gross overreaction to one reported failure, especially considering all the other variables in this equation. I wouldn't be hitting the panic button until we've seen more than one fluke gun demonstrate a similar problem, especially considering the rigorous testing these pistols underwent during development.
     
  5. doctordoctor

    doctordoctor New Member

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    Would a logical and easy solution be to only send one of the halves to Caracal and to keep the other half for your own testing? It seems like an easy solution. DO NOT give all the pieces to Caracal because you will never get the pieces back! Like i said Earlier my dad had a Slide fail "due to ammo" from Ed Brown. well Ed Brown would not return my dad's slide to him... yep the slide my DAD bought was kept by Ed Brown and he HAD TO buy another slide for $800 bucks so he had a working gun! So lesson learned... Don't ever trust the manufacturer with the item in question they will protect their butts at all costs!
     
  6. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Hiya *tax* :)

    No panic button here, Bro. <shrug> ... Promise. :thumbsup:

    After having read the entire paxguns cat-FAILURE thread, it doesn't appear to be the ammo, tho it may have contributed to the slide breaking in half. And, the barrel seemed not to have sustained any damage. So, the "bad ammo and nothing else" theory seems a long shot, to me.

    It doesn't make sense unless there was something wrong either in the processes involved in the slide being manufactured or perhaps the batch of metal that was used, in which case, I'd be very interested in checkin' out "that batch o' serial #'s and havin' some of 'em tested", just to be absolutely certain. <shrug>

    If ya asked me right now, "what caused the complete and utter FAILURE OF THE CAR* C"?, I'm not certain, tho I have my theories. I don't pretend to know all the specifics of makin' a safe and reliable handgun from scratch.

    But, there is a whole industry in the world that makes it their business to know; ppl with experience and proper tools and test facilities, that's who I wanna hear from before I'd suggest that my friends shootin' Car* C's should go out and get their wives one for their anniversary. <shrug>

    If I'm being overly-cautious in your opinion, that's fine. Everyone has opinions, as the story goes. <wink>

    All I'm sayin' is that answers are comin' poste haste and maybe I'll feel foolish when they are in my mind...so what? I've felt foolish before and I'm sure I won't give up every opportunity to feel foolish again before I go. I know and except myself that well. <shrug>

    If this cat-FAIL never happens again that's great! I pray that it will never happen again. What caused it to happen in the first place?...I don't know. Who knows what caused it to happen?...no one, exactly, just a bunch of speculation. When will someone know?...Soon, I hope. The world has been informed of it happening and now Caracal will want to reassure everyone that it is a safe thing to purchase their firearms because they stand behind them with honor and integrity. If not, then what? I suspect that we'll see in due time. <shrug>

    What's worse, Bro?...throwin' caution to the wind or thumbin' your nose at uncertainty. Well, I guess they're both kinda lame ideas. <shrug>

    You know I love ya. :)

    Wulf <-- still waitin' on irrefutable evidence that its OK ta tell 'is Bro that its safe ta go out an' buy his wife's friend a Car* C for 'er birthday :popcorn:

     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  7. WayneJessie

    WayneJessie New Member

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    Given all that has occured with the introduction of the Caracal line; if I had one I would set it aside until more was known about the Kaboom. I have plenty other guns to shoot and even if the odds are 1/1000000 of it happening to my Caracal I'd err on the safe side. Stranger things have happened but I have never seen a barrel left relatively intact from an ammo blowup yet the slide cracking in two. We have all seen slides that have distorted/bent from it but cracking is new to me. Course, I have not seen a tremendous number of KABOOMS either.
     
  8. AK47

    AK47 New Member

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    Greetings Wulf!

    I agree, we should play safe for now. I've put my C-QS back to the closet for a while, till facts are in.

    I'd just like to know here, if anyone knows about the manner by which Caracal manufacture their slides? I mean, what is the process involved called? Casting, forging, cold-hammering, what the heck do the call it? Speculations here say they mold them from metal powder, lol! That would be catastrophic.

    In any case, we should wait. There's a silence going on over here from Caracal's side, let's see when they break it.

    I personally would not have felt this much uncomforable about mine, had the kaboom been of the frame mainly. But the SLIDE!!!.......it's alarming enough and apparently involves serious metallurgy flaws, barrel reportedly intact.


    Regards.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  9. coolbox

    coolbox New Member

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  10. doctordoctor

    doctordoctor New Member

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    good news i guess for caracal owners...hopefully they resolve the issue. I imagine this will make sells harder in the future...but if they work it out I look forward to their products.
     
  11. WayneJessie

    WayneJessie New Member

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    So much for all the replacement guns people have been waiting on...
     
  12. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    We were already getting new pistols from the other recall, right? I just wonder about the batch of guns that is supposed tied up in Customs or wherever right now - whether or not those pistols are "safe" for distribution...?
     
  13. jhb

    jhb Member

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    yep, exactly what i am wondering. might explain the continued delay happening?
     
  14. doctordoctor

    doctordoctor New Member

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    wow what a bummer for them as a company! They were already on thin ice now this happens. Looks like Caracals will be pretty cheap if they survive this!
     
  15. babj615

    babj615 Premium Member

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    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  16. Syntax360

    Syntax360 Premium Member

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    The new recall on the Model C seems to be a CYA for liability:

    That's not an admission of some flaw in their metallurgical process or whatever - it's a blanket disclaimer until their team can get to the bottom of this.

    I contacted them yesterday - I think most of us are aware that the standing offer is an exchange for "new, fixed" guns OR an out-right return. They are being VERY generous with the terms of the return process - even if you bought your guns used, it sounds like they are willing to bend over backwards to get the "problem guns" off the market and square away accounts with folks who now regret their purchase.

    This might sound dumb, but I can't help but to think now is the PERFECT time to buy a Caracal if you have been fence-sitting (assuming you can find one). If you try it and love it, Caracal will give you a brand new one in a few weeks/months/whatever; if you try it and aren't impressed, Caracal will refund your purchase. As a consumer, it's awful hard to argue with that sort of "money back guarantee". :lol:
     
  17. tuicatuica

    tuicatuica New Member

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    Great strategy - syntax! They seem to be an interesting design; nearly attractive in appearance - with a link to Steyr. Cheers.
     
  18. WayneJessie

    WayneJessie New Member

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    It's hard to even grasp how much money the backers of the Caracal company have. While I am sure this isn't making them happy,the cost of the whole fiasco is chump-change to them.
     
  19. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Hi Guys :)

    Don't know if you've seen this or not...

    [​IMG]

    Our pakguns.com Bro's have been busy. :thumbsup:

    FYI. <shrug>

    Wulf <-- goin' back ta pakguns.com for the final episodes :popcorn:
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  20. blueorison

    blueorison Member

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    So, they are now replacing ALL existing Caracal models, instead of just certain batches?

    HUH. That pretty much says E V E R Y T H I N G. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2013