Box-Stock M9 SPANKS S&W Custom Shop Guns at Major IDPA M

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by Guest, Jun 17, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well - for one stage anyway!

    I've been shooting my S9 for about 4 months in IDPA matches at my local range with steadily improving results. Last weekend my range held the Carolina Cup, one of the best IDPA matches on the East Coast with 229 shooters participating. This match drew some big names like Scott Warren, Tom Yost and Ernie Langdon from Team S&W - who was the match sponsor.

    The results are posted here: The-Range

    Look under Carolina Cup 2005 Results and go to Stage 5, my name is Jeff de Gracia. I cleaned them ALL up with my box stock M9, that I bought from Brian at CDNN and received the day before the match. Stage 5 even included a slide-lock reload! I also placed 4th and 6th overall on Stages 10 and 13 respectively. Keep in mind that this is an absolutely fresh-out-of-the-box stock M9 with Triangle/Trapezoid sights shooting against Glock 34s with Dawson Fiber-Optic sights and 3.5 lb triggers and Mega-$$$ Smith and Wesson Custom Shop 1911s in .38 Super!

    It wasn't all roses, however, and it turned ugly for me on several stages where I had major brain fade and lost so much time I finished mid-pack in my class. But the new "old" M9 was flawless for the 200+ rounds of the 15-stage match, which saw you shooting from awkward positions a few times - prone, one-handed, through ports, etc.

    I only put 150 rounds through it to break it in and did a thorough cleaning the night before. On top of that, I used a Comp-Tac C-T.A.C. IWB holster, while most of the pros were using Safariland OWB Model 560 Competition holsters. Comp-Tac makes some of the best holster EVER. I actually use this rig to carry my S9 daily. Comp-Tac C-T.A.C.

    I'm really not trying to toot my own horn here, I just honestly believe that the Steyr M/S series is such a superior combat-shooting platform that box-stock it can shoot as well (or better) than any custom-built gun. The combination of ultra-low bore axis, superior ergonomics of the grip shape/angle and short reset are just awesome compared to anything I've shot recently.

    One last plug - if you shoot IDPA, you NEED to try Lancer Custom Ammo's IDPA Competition Loads. I am using their 9mm 147 grain competition load (895 fps) that makes SSP/ESP power floor but feels to me like it has almost half the percieved recoil of WWB 115 grain. The best part is that they are less than $2.00 more per 100 than WWB 115 grain when you buy bulk 1,000 at a time.
    Lancer Custom Ammo - 9mm Competition Loads

    I really hope Steyr gets back into the US market with some marketing support and starts to sell some pistols, so the aftermarket starts to support them. I really wish I could get some fiber-optic sights and a lighter trigger via drop-in parts. A 5" long-slide/"tactical" version to compete with Glock 34s and XD Tacticals would certainly make it even more interesting!

    The NC State IDPA match is in August - look out!

  2. IDPASteyr

    IDPASteyr Guest

    Jeff, Congratulations on your performance in the CC. I had a couple of friends competing also and was sorry I couldn't make it this year. I contend, as you do, that the Steyr is one of the most underrated pistols on the market today. I have shot mine in two nationals. multiple state and local matches and never felt handicapped against the "others."

    Do you have your application in for the nationals? If you do, we need to get you in the same squad as my wife and I so we can have all the Steyr pistols in one place. I look forward to meeting you in the future.

  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That would be great! I didn't know you came all the way out here to shoot the Carolina Cup, it is indeed unfortunate you didn't make it. I did meet some great guys from Austin so I know some people came a long way to participate. Frank says this was the largest Cup ever and S&W gave away 4 Custom Shop .44 Mag Model 29s.

    This was the first major match I shot in, so I need to look up the Nationals. Do you have to qualify to be able to shoot there? I've only ever shot our local club matches before this.

    I do hope to be able to shoot with you some time. When is our all-Steyr meet going to be?

    Another Steyr story I forgot to relay. On stage 7 (where I only came in 30th) one of the SO's said to me "what are you shooting with?" right after I was done. I told him a Steyr M9 and he replied, "That is really different. I was watching you shoot and it just seemed that the slide action was so quick and it didn't seem to have any muzzle rise."

    We'll convert them, one shooter at a time :D


  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Great report and kudos! Stock M9, way to go. I also shoot Lancer 147gr. and they're nice shooting rounds.
  5. Outstanding!

    It is always great to hear about the superior performance of the M-series pistol in IDPA competitions. I don't know whats better having a weapon that is so well designed and accurate or having such confidence in your pistol. I really feel like I am more confident shooting the Steyr then I would be any other pistol...kind of goes into this Zen feeling...hard to describe.

    I think that Steyr Mannlicher should sponser a competitive IDPA team made up of Steyr M-series and/or MA1 owners. Makes sense to me that you should market your weapon at events where hundreds of potential customers are. In addition, think of the great press of having Steyr shooters win national events.

    IDPASteyr have you looked into possible sponsership from Steyr Mannlicher for you and your wife? Or am I just dreaming and Steyr would never be so market savy?
  6. srfl

    srfl Guest

    Many congrats Jeff....I purchased two M9' for IDPA and similar events and the other as a back up....have not used them in those environments....I'm sure the superior showing of your M9 is thanks in no small part of you, it's owner.
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Box-Stock M9 SPANKS S&W Custom Shop Guns at Major ID

    Jeff -
    Which model C-T.A.C did you order? I don't see Steyr in their product list. I have a C-T.A.C. for my Walther P99 and I love it. I just bought a CompTac paddle for my Beretta for USPSA and I wouldn't mind another C-T.A.C. for my Steyr.


  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    MOD - you're definitely right about the confidence thing. When you shoot IDPA a lot and do well with your actual carry gun, it gives you a good feeling when you do CCW the Steyr on the street. I hope I never have to draw it in self-defense, but I fully understand how quickly and accurately it can put rounds on target. The Lancer Ammo 147 grain competition loads are only a little bit softer than the 147 Grain Ranger T ammo that I use for SD, and that boosts the confidence level that much more.

    Thanks SRFL, I've been practicing with the S9 for the last several months at local matches and it definitely made a difference. I do like the longer sight radius on the M9 for longer shots, but another inch like the Glock 34 and XD Tactical would make the Steyr platform that much better for competitive shooting.

    Jim - Since madecov gave Comp-Tac an M40 to make molds from, they can make any holster in their line-up for the M or S. They just don't have it up on the list, but they are making them - you just have to ask for it. I recently got a Belt Holster from them to shoot in IDPA, but unfortunately it has too much space between the butt of the gun and me to be legal. IDPASteyr mentioned fixing that same gap on his Comp-Tac Belt Holster with a heat gun, but I'm afraid of ruining it. I use it now for 3-gun matches where it's legal. The challenge of competing with an IWB holster is also that much more satisfying when you beat people with full-competition rigs, and I couldn't imagine a faster, yet secure IWB than the Comp-Tac C-T.A.C. Also, see above about "confidence" when CCW'ing the same gun in the same rig as in competition. I'm a firm believer in training how you wish to fight, so the muscle memory takes over when the stress and adrenaline (and confusion) hit.

  9. Alabama

    Alabama Guest

    Nice shootin' Jeff.

    I'm curious, though, about the C-Tac, and though I know how you hate to talk about it, I'd love to know what kind of trade-off you get with the kydex btween retention and a marred finish... I picked up a kydex IWB (whose manufacturer will remain nameless, though they're well-known) and wore it once, noticing with great chagrin the 3/4-inch scratch down the top of the slide just in front of the ejection port...hate it like Mondays now...
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Your Kydex holster put a scratch in your gun's finish? That's not normal Kydex wear -- that sounds like they left a piece of metal in their somewhere during the manufacturing process!

    I use Fobus holsters at the range for all of my guns and I have the C-T.A.C. for concealed carry of my Walther. I've never seen any kind of "abnormal" wear from any of them. Sure, any time you put a gun in and out of a holster repeatedly it's going to wear some...but I've never experienced anything like you described.

    Jeff's experience seems to show that the speed of a good Kydex IWB (and the C-T.A.C. is as smooth as anything I've ever tried) has its advantages.

  11. madecov

    madecov Active Member

    Kydex should not mar a gun any more than leather. in fact it might mar a bit less if kept clean.

    If you got a scratch in the finish of the gun it's because a metal fastner was left above a flush fit surface.

    The only holster that Comp-Tac does not make for the steyr is the settable cant
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Kydex does mar blued guns

    Guys, in my experience with Kydex holsters I have found that they do indeed rub off the finish of guns even more than leather. I was also told that by a knowledgable shooter. I have 3 experiences recently:

    Sig P228 and Uncle Mike's Paddle Kydex
    My Sig has an aftermarket Teflon coat finish. There are wear marks wear you can see the natural aluminum finish from where the Uncle Mike's kydex paddle holster pinches it at the front of the trigger guard for retention. There are also a couple of spots on the edges of the left slide that also contact the holster that are worn.

    Steyr S9 and M9 with Comp-Tac C-T.A.C.
    I first had the S9 and it has the same "to-the-bare-finish" marks on the left edge of the slide just above the Steyr S9 logo near the muzzle. The C-T.A.C. also secures the gun by the trigger guard but obviously there are no marks on the polymer frame. The M9 has only been used a couple of weeks and at 2 matches now (the Carolina Cup IDPA and last weekends 3-Gun match) but is already showing the exact same wear marks on the crease of the slide just above the Steyr M9 logo.

    I have never dropped my guns or holsters so I don't know how any dirt could have gotten in, or why it would have stayed there. I surmise that it is indeed from the Kydex rubbing the finish.

    I would be really curious how the Tripp Research Hard Chrome finish of IDPASteyr's M9 is holding up to his match shooting after a month or so. I believe he is also using a Comp-Tac Kydex holster.

    'Bama - I don't actually hate talking about the slide wear, I think it gives the gun "character" and shows it's not a safe queen and is being USED. Being obsessive-compulsive though, if I find that IDPASteyr's Tripp Research finish is holding up, I would definitely like to get that in the future.

    BTW - I might have video soon of the Stage 5 Steyr overall win from last weekend's big IDPA match.

  13. IDPASteyr

    IDPASteyr Guest

    I agree that Kydex holsters are harder on the finish of the gun than leather. Anyplace the kydex directly contacts the firearm with show finish damage very quickly. I have used Kydex exclusively since 2001 and have seen wear on tenifer, blueing, and teflon.

    The Tripp finish is the only thing I have found that resists the wear of kydex. I have over 6,000 rounds through my M9 since having it chromed and it is showing no wear at all. Next one to go to Tripp is my 1911.
  14. Alabama

    Alabama Guest

    Kydex thread

    I thought we might continue this on another thread...
    If we hijak jeff's he's obviously got something for us... :wink:
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    LOL Alabama :lol: but I only use my powers to fight evil :wink:

    In fact it was IDPASteyr that I heard say Kydex is rough on finishes. I am really glad the Tripp hard chrome is holding up. Since it looks great and works to boot, I guess I'll have to get in line. I just hope the price/turnaround time hasn't gone up due to their popularity.

  16. Guest

    Guest Guest


    A friend of mine was shooting video on certain stages of the Carolina Cup IDPA match and he actually got me shooting Stage 5 - the one that Steyr M9 and me took 1st overall out of 229 shooters.

    Here's the stage setup: "The Car Wreck Part 1" designed by Dean Brevit

    Thugs run your car off the road and you end up on an embankment. The car is partially on one of the berms and tilted down on the passenger side. You start loaded with 6 rounds, holstered and in the driver's seat with hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel. At the signal you draw and engage T1 (Target 1) out of the driver's side window with 6 rounds, going to slide-lock. You retrieve a spare magazine from the open glove compartment, reload, and engage T2, T3 and T4 two rounds each out of the passenger side window. T2 and T3 are taking cover behind another car.

    Keep in mind I am 6-foot, 250 pounds crammed in a Chrysler K-Car using an IWB holster.

    Right click and "Save Target As" for best results in viewing this video (2 MB - Windows Media Format):

  17. Alabama

    Alabama Guest

    :!: :!: DUDE ... THAT IS FRICKIN' AWESOME :!: :!:

    How long do you train for a thing like that? Nice shootin'
  18. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    for a biggin you moved around in that car like her dad just came out w/ a shotgun. :lol:

    and here I am trying to slow down my shooting to get my hits and you make me want to go full auto watching that :wink:
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    LOL Chef - that brings back memories :lol:

    Alabama - I started shooting IDPA in February of this year, having just gotten back into shooting after a 10-year hiatus. Back in the early 90's I used to shoot A LOT, like 1,000 rounds a week or more. IDPA didn't even exist and I used to compete in IPSC Limited Class with a slightly-modded Springfield 1911. Now I shoot about 500-750 rounds in practice and 2-3 matches a month.

    IDPA is A TON of fun, and IMHO is great for your defensive shooting training. A well-run match will have you shooting from all kinds of awkward positions/angles, while moving, using cover, reloading and other situations that you just will never get at your typical range. Actually competing and knowing your squad is watching is also helpful in adding "stress" to your defensive shooting practice.

    Bottom line - if you carry a gun for defensive purposes (and are any kind of gun enthusiast), you owe it to yourself to shoot IDPA matches at least every once in a while. It will give you greater proficiency and confidence in your weapon. For me, I can't think of anything better to do on the weekend!

  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks for sharing that video and IPDA info. I am not familiar with IDPA at all, but you have certainly perked up my interest! It sounds
    (and looks 8O ) like an excellent way to get some exposure to practical or difficult situations.

    Nice shooting!