Beginner meets Break Point

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by Guest, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Once again my shots were all over the place, but the location was different; our underused indoor range. I was also with an experienced shooter who had three guns with him, a 22 target pistol, a .38 Special revolver and a re-barelled 1911. He let me try the 22 and I had a group of about 4 inches just a little low and to the right. It was way better than I'd been doing with my M9. The other shooter tried my M9 and had a nice tight group with the exception of his first shot. He handed it back to me and said the trigger pull was quite a surprise. He thought it was very light at first, then maybe 9 lbs at the break. 'Try aiming from the break point,' he said.

    I'd been aiming first, then pulling back and through the break. This time I pulled back to the break, aimed, and then shot. What a difference! Suddenly I was on the target with a spread of about eight inches in ten shots at 60 feet. Using the 22 helped as well. We'll both be back next week.

    So, I suppose this is what everyone does, pull, aim and shoot?
  2. WorldPax

    WorldPax Guest


    Eyes closed, screaming "Die you Mothers!" and keep pulling the trigger until I just hear clicks.

    Targets are for sissys!

  3. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    Yes I always take up the slack and then setttle my sight picture; w/ any gun.

    It shouldn't be anywhere close to 9lbs though. It's listed as 5lbs, and figure different guns alll in the same model w/ ANY amnufacturer can vary bt a lb or two. Also while the Steyr triggers do have some noticeable creep they should not stack and should have a crisp break.

    is yours an original M series w/ a serial number below 10,000?
  4. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

    i'm with worldpax.

    if they're far enough away that you have to aim... run up and get real close and personal!!!

    seriously... i always "take up the slack" before/ while aquiring a sight picture. watch, as in stare a hole through and be totally focused on the front sight, not the target. if you see the front sight clearly on a blurry target as the muzzle flashes and wonder, "did my front sight just come towards my head?" you acheived the perfect surprise break in which there was no eye closing, flinching, or anticipating. do it twice in a row at ten yards and you'll see one bullet hole... promise.

    try shooting at black circles. hold the sight directly underneath them so the tip of the sight is barely touching the bottom of the circle. this will help, but until black circles are criminal attire, we all have to practice shooting at other things. like t-shirts.

    no substitute for dry fire though.
  5. Pistol Marksmanship 101

    In order to become proficient with a pistol you must recognize and then work on each individual element of marksmanship:

    1. Proper Grip (holding the pistol)
    2. Sight Picture (aiming)
    3. Breeth Control
    4. Trigger Squeeze
    5. Target engagement
    6. Position (the stance or other position you place your body in to achieve the above).

    You have to know the proper way to perform all the above and then practice, Practice, PRACTICE! Seriously, take your time at the range for awhile, don't rush yourself or feel you need to impress other shooters. Just get in your lane, get in your zone (Frame of mind), and take your time. Don't go for rapid shots at this stage, but instead work on one shot at a time until you feel comfortable with the pistol and then move on up to double shots. Maybe even cut down the range as I would never recommend that a new shooter try and bullseye at 25 yards. Try a target at 15 feet or maybe 20 and just get use to the weapon and proper firing techniques.

    The thing I tell all new shooters is work on the elements and the rest will follow. If you lay a good base down and learn the proper way from the start it will save you alot of frustration latter on. Learn the Steyr's trigger pull, learn the proper sight alignment with the trapezoid sights. Everything needs to be slow, very deliberate, and well thought out at first until you get so use to doing it soon its instinct.

    Good Luck, don't get frustrated and above all remember you don't have to be a world class marksman right away. Above all remember safety at all times. If you get really stuck there are some great NRA certified instructors that do private lessons in most areas.

    Safe Shooting.
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Serial Number

    In reply to FlaChef, my serial number is 030XXX so the trigger pull should be 5lbs. Feels like more, according to the expert I was with. He's got a way to measure it accurately next week. I'll report back. Thanks to ministerofdeath for the excellent advice. I admit, I've been shooting too fast, using a target too far away, etc. I'll slow down. As for impressing the audience, don't worry about that; I'm not impressing anyone at this point. :)
  7. FightDesigner

    FightDesigner Member

    Aren't we kinda talking about the point where the self-defence and target shooting disciplines diverge? Seems like if you're training to use a gun against a live target, you don't want to count on having that much time between when you decide you're going to have to shoot and when you get to pull the trigger. Point and click, maybe point and aim while clicking. On the range, trying to score points on a piece of paper with no time limit, that's just going to look sloppy though compared to someone who carefully controlls their breathing, gets centered, lines up the sights properly, slowly finds the break point, checks their aim and adjusts, and then gently squeezes off a round.

    Just curious- does aiming from the break point work for folks to do IDPA/IPSC? It's still not quite real life, in that the pressure isn't the same, and the shoot/don't shoot decisions are easier (and the consequences less), but at least there you have the time constraint, as well as the safety issues of moving between targets with the finger clearly out of the trigger guard.

    Good to have all these tools at your disposal, but like was already said here- if they're that far away, and you have that much warning... why are you shooting at them with a handgun? Walk away, or get closer, or go back to the aresenal most of you lucky guys seem to have and pick out your favorite rifle.
  8. FlaChef

    FlaChef Guest

    all valid point FD, but good marksmanship is the building block for it all.

    As IDPASteyr points out in both his personal coaching (of which I have benefited) and in his articles and advice here. Each individual shot needs to be controlled. Then you start to string them together, and later work on finding your ranges for point-shooting, flash picture, front sight only, and full sights.

    It's kinda the same argument as is raging over on the GT training forum about the "gamers" vs the "urban ninjas". But knowing your gun well and being able to put bullets where they count are essentials for both.

    As for the taking up the slack, I do it in IDPA, but I am no master and am very accustomed to the steyr trigger as it was my first gun and the only one I've trained with.
  9. FightDesigner

    FightDesigner Member

    Well put, and thanks for the reminder.
  10. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

    a lot of this debate can be brought down to distance. my shooting instructor talks about cadence. a five yard double tap will be much faster than a 15 yard double tap. he also stresses shooting slowly, fast.

    you've got to put all your fundamentals together first, then start doing each step in the process quickly. but practicing speed for the sake of speed is very likely to ingrain bad habits and slow progress down.

    i'm a big fan of aim small miss small. i go for one ragged hole at ten yards as a measure of success. then i spend LOTS of time shooting at 25 yards and farther. every miscue is amplified and to have any success at all at that range, you must be doing everything correctly.

    when you pull it back to 10 or 15 yards, your perception is that the target is HUGE, making it much easier to hit.

    i always take up the slack in the trigger. not doing so WILL cause you to slap the trigger which will never produce satisfactory results. in "more realistic" scenarios such as those in idpa and ipsc, i focus on a smooth trigger pull, even though smooth may happen very quickly.
  11. Thunderbear

    Thunderbear Member

    Glad to hear fellow Steyr owners know their sh9t.

    I agree with all of the above. Starting with the basics and then getting them to become second nature is most important to me.

    Ministerofdeath.. you sound like all of my PMIs. :lol: