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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought I read somewhere that 9mm NATO is an even higher pressure than +P but I can't find any info to back that up.
Anyone know if they steyr pistols can handle it?

I'm still trying to get a straight answer from taurus they can't seem to tell me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Sky042 said:
I thought I read somewhere that 9mm NATO is an even higher pressure than +P but I can't find any info to back that up.
Anyone know if they steyr pistols can handle it?

I'm still trying to get a straight answer from taurus they can't seem to tell me.
I recall a similar question being asked on the GT Steyr forum, questioning the use of +P and +P+ 9mm. There was no definite answer, and the most reasonable response was that most MFGs would probably advise against it for liability reasons. Most people thought that occassional use would be fine, and that's what I think.

If we can find out conclusively whether or not the 9mm Steyr slides are indeed the same dimensions of the .40 cal, the answer would be for sure. Pistols such as the CZ P-O1 and H&K USP are openly stated to be compatible with +P ammo because their platforms were designed around the high-pressure .40 S&W load, which averages 33% higher pressure than the standard 9mm load. Most .40 platforms are interchangable with .357 Sig, which is another 10%-15% pressure increase over .40.

I plan to shoot WWB or a "game" handload for IDPA competition in my S9, but when I carry it it will be loaded with the highest pressure HP round that feeds reliably. Probably the Federal EFMJ 124 +P that Jim got from Ammoman.com and tested out on phonebooks to good effect.

Jeff
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
WorldPax said:
Darn... I need to finish the New Steyr FAQ. Hmmm I think I have an idea.
(in the voice and inflection of Ted Knight to Chevy Chase and Michael O'Keefe in the Caddyshack finale)

WELLL, we're WAITING...

Jeff
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Damn you Pax! My OCD will prevent me from getting any real work done until I have researched and answered every single one of those questions!

Seriously, thanks for the work!

Jeff
 

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I was always under the impression that 9mm NATO is standard military 9mm, and as such is what is chambered in the Beretta M9 pistol the U.S. soldiers carry as well as a variety of other 9mm chambered pistols carried by militaries around the world. Midway is currently selling 9mm NATO manufactured by Winchester that they say is a manufacturing overrun of the same stuff carried by our troops in Iraq. I hope it's okay in a Steyr, because I have 1000 rounds of it in transit to me from Midway right now!
 

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Somone send an e mail to Steyr asking .

I have an M40 and as long as it feeds I will shoot it regardless of the +p or +P+ rating
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
jng1226 said:
Sky042 said:
I thought I read somewhere that 9mm NATO is an even higher pressure than +P but I can't find any info to back that up.
Anyone know if they steyr pistols can handle it?

I'm still trying to get a straight answer from taurus they can't seem to tell me.
I recall a similar question being asked on the GT Steyr forum, questioning the use of +P and +P+ 9mm. There was no definite answer, and the most reasonable response was that most MFGs would probably advise against it for liability reasons. Most people thought that occassional use would be fine, and that's what I think.

If we can find out conclusively whether or not the 9mm Steyr slides are indeed the same dimensions of the .40 cal, the answer would be for sure. Pistols such as the CZ P-O1 and H&K USP are openly stated to be compatible with +P ammo because their platforms were designed around the high-pressure .40 S&W load, which averages 33% higher pressure than the standard 9mm load. Most .40 platforms are interchangable with .357 Sig, which is another 10%-15% pressure increase over .40.

I plan to shoot WWB or a "game" handload for IDPA competition in my S9, but when I carry it it will be loaded with the highest pressure HP round that feeds reliably. Probably the Federal EFMJ 124 +P that Jim got from Ammoman.com and tested out on phonebooks to good effect.

Jeff
Good point there. I use my Taurus for an example. They say it's not rated for it. However the barrel and chamber are the same exterior dimension as the .45ACP version but just instead made for 9mm which should make it extremely strong. Guess I'll have to see how things look when I get the S9.
 

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9mm NATO is standard pressure ammo. NATO ammo is FMJ round nose and is what our military has to use in combat zones, (it is more humane). If you kill an enemy soldier it removes one from combat, if you wound him it removes him an 3 additional to take care of him from combat.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
shoot +p through it all day. Save the +p+ stuff for special occasions (just adds wear, not unsafe).
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Back to the original question of 9mm NATO being +P

Back to the original question of 9mm NATO being +P

Hodgdon Powder's website shows that their maximum load for 9mm 125 grain FMJ produces 1169 fps out of a 4-inch barrel. Other maximum loads with other powders are 50-100 fps slower.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/9mmluger.php

Outdoormarksman.com has Winchester 9mm 124 grain FMJ "NATO" in stock and states the performance as 1187 fps, no barrel length specified but it is commonly thought that 4 inches is the "standard" 9mm barrel.
http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_1_28&products_id=8508

We may therefore deduce that 9mm NATO may not necessarily be +P but appears to be at the upper limit of standard pressure. Of course, this all depends upon the powder and actual pressure testing in a lab barrel. If you look at the Hodgdon webpage above, you will notice that the Clays loading for 125 grain FMJ produces the 2nd highest pressure of ALL 9mm loads on the page while being over 100fps slower than the Titegroup load - which is actually the highest velocity of the 124 grain loadings.

So actual pressure (and therefore +P or +P+ rating) depends upon what powder the NATO 9mm manufacturer was using to load their rounds.

As for .40 S&W, there is no +P or +P+ rating for this load. It's maximum standard loading is the maximum safe pressure for the load. 9mm being much older in origin can be loaded hotter for guns designed to handle the extra stress, thus the +P an +P+ ratings.

I still bet that if Steyr answers a direct question about +P and +P+ suitability, they will say no. However, I concur with others here that +P and +P+ will be OK in the M/S9 Steyr for limited use, IMHO.

Jeff
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Back to the original question of 9mm NATO being +P

jng1226 said:
Back to the original question of 9mm NATO being +P

Hodgdon Powder's website shows that their maximum load for 9mm 125 grain FMJ produces 1169 fps out of a 4-inch barrel. Other maximum loads with other powders are 50-100 fps slower.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/9mmluger.php

Outdoormarksman.com has Winchester 9mm 124 grain FMJ "NATO" in stock and states the performance as 1187 fps, no barrel length specified but it is commonly thought that 4 inches is the "standard" 9mm barrel.
http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_1_28&products_id=8508

We may therefore deduce that 9mm NATO may not necessarily be +P but appears to be at the upper limit of standard pressure. Of course, this all depends upon the powder and actual pressure testing in a lab barrel. If you look at the Hodgdon webpage above, you will notice that the Clays loading for 125 grain FMJ produces the 2nd highest pressure of ALL 9mm loads on the page while being over 100fps slower than the Titegroup load - which is actually the highest velocity of the 124 grain loadings.

So actual pressure (and therefore +P or +P+ rating) depends upon what powder the NATO 9mm manufacturer was using to load their rounds.

As for .40 S&W, there is no +P or +P+ rating for this load. It's maximum standard loading is the maximum safe pressure for the load. 9mm being much older in origin can be loaded hotter for guns designed to handle the extra stress, thus the +P an +P+ ratings.

I still bet that if Steyr answers a direct question about +P and +P+ suitability, they will say no. However, I concur with others here that +P and +P+ will be OK in the M/S9 Steyr for limited use, IMHO.

Jeff
Ok with that in mind. Is the NATO round from lets say ammoman safe for use at the range? I will typically go through 200 rounds at a range session.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Back to the original question of 9mm NATO being +P

Sky042 said:
Ok with that in mind. Is the NATO round from lets say ammoman safe for use at the range? I will typically go through 200 rounds at a range session.
Without a definitive response from Steyr, I would say probably it will be just fine. Steyr makes many weapons for military and law enforcement use, so I would assume that these same standards were applied to the M/S design and NATO ammo compatiblity would have been included.

Jeff
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have shot several hundred rounds of Federal 115gr +p+ out of my M9 with no problems at all. Steyr pistols were engineered for the .40 S&W so 9mm is no problem at all.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My S9 has been fed nothing but Fed 9BPLE 115gr +P+. When CDNN had it I bought several cases, empolyee discount. The gun just eats it up and there have been no malfunctions.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Welcome Brian! I'm sure I'm not the only one to say I'm glad you made the jump over here to Steyr Club.

Jeff
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I did a little digging here's what I came up with

9mm NATO A detailed list from TM 43-0001-27 "Army Ammunition Data Sheets Small Caliber Ammuntion"
MASTER PO'S DISCLAIMER: The following is for informational purposes only. DO NOT USE THIS DATA TO REPLICATE.


Cartridge, 9mm, Ball
Use:
Modified M3 Submachine Gun or commercial weapons (The use in M9 pistolis not authorized.)The cartridge is designed for use against personnel.

Description:
BALL.

Weight - 182 grains
Length - 1.169 inches
Primer - Percussion
Propellant - Commercial
Charge - Meet ballistic requirements
Projectile Weight - 115 grains
Chamber Pressure - 38,500 psi avg., 43,000 psi maximum
Velocity - 1125 fps, 15 feet from muzzle


Cartridge, 9mm, Ball, NATO, M882
Use:
M9 pistol.The cartridge is designed for use against personnel. Cartridge can also be used in the following nonstandard weapons:
HK P7 series
Walther P38
FN P35
HK MP 5 and MP5SD SMG's
IMI Uzi
Berettea M12
FFVM45/45B
Madsen M50
CZ M23
Sten MKII and Sterling 12A3 SMG's

Description:
BALL. Identified by a plain bullet tip.

Weight - 179 grains
Length - 1.165 inches
Primer - Percussion
Propellant - HPC 6
Charge - 6 grains
Projectile Weight - 112 grains
Chamber Pressure - 31,175 psi avg., 36,250 psi maximum
Velocity - 1263fps, 15 feet from muzzle

Other pistol loads include:
M905 High Pressure Test. (Identified by a timmed cartridge case and HPT on headstamp. WARNING! These loads are in excess of 50,000 psi when ired.)
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well that's strange, the only 9mm "NATO" that I have ever heard of is 124 grain ball. The ones you found are 115 and 179 grains, the latter number being the highest weight I have ever heard of in 9mm. Strange indeed.

Jeff
 

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jng1226 said:
Well that's strange, the only 9mm "NATO" that I have ever heard of is 124 grain ball. The ones you found are 115 and 179 grains, the latter number being the highest weight I have ever heard of in 9mm. Strange indeed.

Jeff
That "179 grain" is the total cartridge weight...look further down for the projectile weight.

That said, the 9mm NATO of which I just received two cases from Midway is indeed 124gr ball.
 
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