I recall a similar question being asked on the GT Steyr forum, questioning the use of +P and +P+ 9mm. There was no definite answer, and the most reasonable response was that most MFGs would probably advise against it for liability reasons. Most people thought that occassional use would be fine, and that's what I think.Sky042 said:I thought I read somewhere that 9mm NATO is an even higher pressure than +P but I can't find any info to back that up.
Anyone know if they steyr pistols can handle it?
I'm still trying to get a straight answer from taurus they can't seem to tell me.
(in the voice and inflection of Ted Knight to Chevy Chase and Michael O'Keefe in the Caddyshack finale)WorldPax said:Darn... I need to finish the New Steyr FAQ. Hmmm I think I have an idea.
Good point there. I use my Taurus for an example. They say it's not rated for it. However the barrel and chamber are the same exterior dimension as the .45ACP version but just instead made for 9mm which should make it extremely strong. Guess I'll have to see how things look when I get the S9.jng1226 said:I recall a similar question being asked on the GT Steyr forum, questioning the use of +P and +P+ 9mm. There was no definite answer, and the most reasonable response was that most MFGs would probably advise against it for liability reasons. Most people thought that occassional use would be fine, and that's what I think.Sky042 said:I thought I read somewhere that 9mm NATO is an even higher pressure than +P but I can't find any info to back that up.
Anyone know if they steyr pistols can handle it?
I'm still trying to get a straight answer from taurus they can't seem to tell me.
If we can find out conclusively whether or not the 9mm Steyr slides are indeed the same dimensions of the .40 cal, the answer would be for sure. Pistols such as the CZ P-O1 and H&K USP are openly stated to be compatible with +P ammo because their platforms were designed around the high-pressure .40 S&W load, which averages 33% higher pressure than the standard 9mm load. Most .40 platforms are interchangable with .357 Sig, which is another 10%-15% pressure increase over .40.
I plan to shoot WWB or a "game" handload for IDPA competition in my S9, but when I carry it it will be loaded with the highest pressure HP round that feeds reliably. Probably the Federal EFMJ 124 +P that Jim got from Ammoman.com and tested out on phonebooks to good effect.
Jeff
Ok with that in mind. Is the NATO round from lets say ammoman safe for use at the range? I will typically go through 200 rounds at a range session.jng1226 said:Back to the original question of 9mm NATO being +P
Hodgdon Powder's website shows that their maximum load for 9mm 125 grain FMJ produces 1169 fps out of a 4-inch barrel. Other maximum loads with other powders are 50-100 fps slower.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/9mmluger.php
Outdoormarksman.com has Winchester 9mm 124 grain FMJ "NATO" in stock and states the performance as 1187 fps, no barrel length specified but it is commonly thought that 4 inches is the "standard" 9mm barrel.
http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_1_28&products_id=8508
We may therefore deduce that 9mm NATO may not necessarily be +P but appears to be at the upper limit of standard pressure. Of course, this all depends upon the powder and actual pressure testing in a lab barrel. If you look at the Hodgdon webpage above, you will notice that the Clays loading for 125 grain FMJ produces the 2nd highest pressure of ALL 9mm loads on the page while being over 100fps slower than the Titegroup load - which is actually the highest velocity of the 124 grain loadings.
So actual pressure (and therefore +P or +P+ rating) depends upon what powder the NATO 9mm manufacturer was using to load their rounds.
As for .40 S&W, there is no +P or +P+ rating for this load. It's maximum standard loading is the maximum safe pressure for the load. 9mm being much older in origin can be loaded hotter for guns designed to handle the extra stress, thus the +P an +P+ ratings.
I still bet that if Steyr answers a direct question about +P and +P+ suitability, they will say no. However, I concur with others here that +P and +P+ will be OK in the M/S9 Steyr for limited use, IMHO.
Jeff
Without a definitive response from Steyr, I would say probably it will be just fine. Steyr makes many weapons for military and law enforcement use, so I would assume that these same standards were applied to the M/S design and NATO ammo compatiblity would have been included.Sky042 said:Ok with that in mind. Is the NATO round from lets say ammoman safe for use at the range? I will typically go through 200 rounds at a range session.
9mm NATO A detailed list from TM 43-0001-27 "Army Ammunition Data Sheets Small Caliber Ammuntion"
MASTER PO'S DISCLAIMER: The following is for informational purposes only. DO NOT USE THIS DATA TO REPLICATE.
Cartridge, 9mm, Ball
Use:
Modified M3 Submachine Gun or commercial weapons (The use in M9 pistolis not authorized.)The cartridge is designed for use against personnel.
Description:
BALL.
Weight - 182 grains
Length - 1.169 inches
Primer - Percussion
Propellant - Commercial
Charge - Meet ballistic requirements
Projectile Weight - 115 grains
Chamber Pressure - 38,500 psi avg., 43,000 psi maximum
Velocity - 1125 fps, 15 feet from muzzle
Cartridge, 9mm, Ball, NATO, M882
Use:
M9 pistol.The cartridge is designed for use against personnel. Cartridge can also be used in the following nonstandard weapons:
HK P7 series
Walther P38
FN P35
HK MP 5 and MP5SD SMG's
IMI Uzi
Berettea M12
FFVM45/45B
Madsen M50
CZ M23
Sten MKII and Sterling 12A3 SMG's
Description:
BALL. Identified by a plain bullet tip.
Weight - 179 grains
Length - 1.165 inches
Primer - Percussion
Propellant - HPC 6
Charge - 6 grains
Projectile Weight - 112 grains
Chamber Pressure - 31,175 psi avg., 36,250 psi maximum
Velocity - 1263fps, 15 feet from muzzle
Other pistol loads include:
M905 High Pressure Test. (Identified by a timmed cartridge case and HPT on headstamp. WARNING! These loads are in excess of 50,000 psi when ired.)
That "179 grain" is the total cartridge weight...look further down for the projectile weight.jng1226 said:Well that's strange, the only 9mm "NATO" that I have ever heard of is 124 grain ball. The ones you found are 115 and 179 grains, the latter number being the highest weight I have ever heard of in 9mm. Strange indeed.
Jeff
