Anybody knows the lifetime of M40A1 and M357A1?

Discussion in 'M, C, L and S Series' started by DoctorW, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. DoctorW

    DoctorW New Member

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    Anybody knows?

    357sig has a higher pressure than 40SW, so the barrel life time should be shorter. How short would it be?

    Besides, I saw there are some +P and +P+ 40SW ammo being sold on Georgia arms. Can the normal M40A1 handle these extremely hot ammos well? The higher pressure surely will shorten the barrel life time, but how bad would it be? Anybody has any idea?

    Thanks.
     
  2. DoctorW

    DoctorW New Member

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    BTW, is there any +P or +P+ ammo for 357sig?
    (How hot could you imagine that would be!) :shock:
     

  3. mugdava

    mugdava Premium Member

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    Hey DoctorW!

    Haven't seen any 357sig listed as +P or +P+, but Gold Dots and other JHP's are often rated higher than FMJ's or TMJ's.

    Here's a link to Georgia Arms 357sig Gold Dots:
    http://www.georgia-arms.com/index.asp?P ... egory=3175

    You'll notice that Georgia Arms 357sig FMJ's are rated at 1300fps, but the Gold Dots are 1400fps! :twisted:
    _______
    mugdava
     
  4. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Hiya Doc* :)

    Hmmm...I do a little reloadin' an' I gotta few loads that are pretty "zippy" using component bullets ranging from 88 gr JHP's to 158 gr JHP's. Some I consider on the verge of +P, but my reloads seldom show signs of "extreme pressure", i.e. case over expansion, extraction problems, severely flattened primers, cracked brass, shiny rings, stuff like that. <shrug> But, if you consider 1650+ fps with an 88 gr JHP "hot", I reckon there's still a little room for "hotter". :twisted: The accuracy tends to fall away a bit with the light wt, high velocity component bullets in this little bottlenecked cartridge, but certainly nothing that a different barrel twist couldn't remedy. <shrug> Exploding water filled milk jugs at 15 yds are spectacular to behold using higher velocity 357 SIG reloads, tho! :twisted: Far as "what's hot" for the 357 SIG round, I'm still xplorin' the performance envelope of my M357-A1. Atta 100 yds, a 158 gr 357 Rem Mag JHP resized to 0.356" exhibits amazing accuracy with the 4" OEM stocker bbl and the tri-trap sights. <shrug> Imagine the kind of accuracy a 5" bbl with a 7" sight radius and target sights could yield from the bench! :shock: Better yet, a fuckin' scope! :shock: All in all, tho, a 125 gr JHP at 1450 fps is a pretty frame-pounding steady diet for a little plastic pistol. The recoil is manageable, sure, but if ya really want 10 MM performance ya really oughtta consider a 10 MM pistol. <shrug>

    Wulf

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  5. bigtaco

    bigtaco Active Member

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    i think that'd you'd run out of money trying to burn up a steyr barrel.

    chances are that by the time you DID actually burn one out, you'd be so impressed with everything about the weapon, you'd happily pay full price to get a new one and start all over again.

    as it stands now, SAI would PROBABLY replace the barrel "under warranty". but i'd never offer their barrels for free.

    as far as the pressure goes, keep in mind that the same steel is used to make 22-250 barrels that can reliably fire projectiles above 4,000 fps. for thousands and thousands of rounds at pressures approaching 60,000 psi.

    i'd be more concerned about cracking the slide or breaking the sub-frame than burning up the barrel. i know that these were my concerns when we (netfotoj and i) concocted the first ever s357 using an m357 barrel.
     
  6. DoctorW

    DoctorW New Member

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    Hi, Wolf, I am just wondering how potent the 357sig could be. In my opinion, the normal 357sig has a little more energy than 40SW. But the hot +P+ 40SW surely exceeded 357sig, and almost equal to (or even exceed some) usual 10mm auto loads. That is why I wonder if there is any +P or +P+ 357sig loads, which could be more powerful.

    bigtato: Maybe you are right, the barrel could be strong enough, but the plastic components may not. I wonder Steyr could do more experiments for different loads to test the lifetime and durablity and realiablity of the M A1 pisotol, if they really want to compete with Glock. (and I bet they want) :D
     
  7. Wulf

    Wulf Premium Member

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    Hiya Doc* :)

    I reload for the 40 SW and appreciate the external ballistics that it has brought to the civilian self defense arena...mostly a greater capacity inna smaller frame. <shrug> But, the only time I have developed loads for the 40 SW cartridge that assume a similar energy graph to my 125 gr JHP 357 SIG reloads is with 135 gr JHP's loaded very hot and the accuracy at 15 yds thru my Walther P99 was horrendous...more like a 12 ga 2-3/4" mag 00 buckshot from my Mossy 9200 with an 18-1/2" bbl from the same distance. :shock: A real handcannon kinda experience in the Walther P99, tho. :p An LEO buddy of mine uses that particular 135 gr JHP reload recipe for his Baby Eagle and swears by it. :twisted: On paper, he's all over, but he can dance a can 20 yards and beyond with it. :roll: BTW, with the exception of a few select factory ammo loads, modern, over the counter 10 MM ammo has for the most part been toned down to the upper limit 40 SW performance levels. The 10 MM cartridge itself has more performance available to it, but there have been problems for 10 MM semiauto pistol owners as a direct result of having fed their pistols a steady diet of high performance 10 MM ammo. The Industry dealt with that issue by tonin' down the factory ammo. <shrug> Oh, but I hava shootin' buddy that has a 10" bbl'd 10MM Thompson Contender and he uses it for elk huntin'. So far, he's 100% with it, and by that, I mean that every year when he goes out elk huntin', he manages ta bring one back for the supper table. :shock: He's just too fuckin' lazy ta tote around a rifle. :roll: But, those loads are real whoppers and won't even fit in a 10 MM magazine. <shrug> If ya could get the slide closed enough ta trigger onna them babies, I wouldn't wanna be too close. :twisted: If ya really wanna become a more integrated part of your shooting experience, learn to reload. You then have the levity to craft your ammo...tweak it for its intention and for a specific firearm. As a side note, I did push the 40 SW cartridge to its very limits in the 10" 10 MM T/C. I even survived to come up with a few pretty damn hot 40 SW load recipes using quite a variety of component bullets from 135 gr JHP's to 200 gr SWC's, but none I'd ever try in my P99. :shock:

    One last thought. The 357 SIG cartridge is capable of assuming a major role inna wide range of performance scenarios...some for penetration, some for expansion, some for accuracy. IMHO, given normal working pressures for these modern cartridges, the potential for all of that to come together in a light wt, plastic, medium framed, high capacity semiauto pistol is the beauty of this cartridge. Fact is, there is a very fine line between the performance envelopes for the 9MM, 357 SIG, 40 SW and 45 ACP. If ya throw a high performance, carefully crafted 10 MM cartridge into that mix, there goes the neighborhood. :roll: Course, that won't really happen given that the 10 MM cartridge wasn't designed to be housed inna light wt, plastic, medium framed, high capacity semiauto pistol...and neither was the 45 ACP...not yet. ;)

    I guess the point to all of this is "apples an' oranges", Doc*. When ya mix 'em, stomp on 'em, filter out the mush, an' throw in a little vodka, you gotta party, Baby! :p Course, it may make ya puke, too. ;)

    Cya :)

    Wulf

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  8. Netfotoj

    Netfotoj Premium Member

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    If you want to go really, really hot in a pistol, the hottest load I've looked into is 9x25mm, which is a 10mm shell casing necked down to a 9mm projectile. Lone Wolf sells the barrels that will fit into a Glock 10mm.

    Here's some ballistics, comparing 9x25 to the hottest 10mm loads by DoubleTap:

    Caliber Grains Type Mfg. FPS Muzzle Ft.Lbs. Muzzle
    9X25mm 115 JHP Gold Dot DoubleTap 1800 827
    10mm 180 JHP Gold Dot DoubleTap 1300 676
    10mm 115 JHP Gold Dot DoubleTap 1650 695

    I've never looked into .45 Super, but it might have an edge in ft./lbs. if not velocity. Of course, the problem with both of those superhot loads is muzzle blast. They say either 9x25 or .45 Super are nasty enough to set off burglar alarms all over the neighborhood and scare Attila the Hun into early retirement. Maybe I'll find out some day, if I have enough money and time to experiment with either or both. I'd love to try at least once. :twisted:

    But as for wearing out my M357-A1, I'm quite sure it will outlive me and probably my son and grandsons, too. :mrgreen: