5-19-07 Immigration Draft for discussion purposes

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by MrApathy, May 24, 2007.

  1. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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  2. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Howdy Mr A,

    You gonna let us digest this for a while :wink:
    :D ...its 326 pages long...:lol:

    Cheers!

    West01

    :D
     

  3. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    oh yeah sure. though might want to go through it fast before it gets passed. lot of bad stuff hitting congress that could distract and allow something to squeak through. AWB,Immigration Amnesty and Presidents Dictatorship Directive.

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

    key areas of interest
    Section 112 evading DHS and other federal agency checkpoints "papers please"
    more precrime ie conspiracy crime no actual crime but the thought and organizing before carrying out such crime.
    Section 138 Border Enforcement and Review commission ie special interest hotline that have all expenses paid by the tax payers. can ya say party? also some sick stuff about commission member party affiliation.
    Section 205 some think it could ban gunshops
    Section 413 Nation building Mexico installing banks,hospitals decorrupting Mexico's corrupt law enforcement and politicions. method will probably be corruption for decorruption yeah that will probably work great.
    goes on talks about SPP Security Partnership and Prosperty group which is a group formed from the CFR Council Foreign Relations document building a north american union. bush with mexican and canadian leaders sign an agreement that undermines the constitution in 2001.

    not sure where it gives amnesty it doesnt use the word amnesty in the document that my search function is detecting.

    dont take my word research it for yourself.
    might want to research presidential candidates for membership into various organizations.
    be carefull of public relations deceptions.

    might want to lookup the word public relations on wikipedia for its origin
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_rel ... Precursors
     
  4. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    This thing is so bad, it makes me wonder more and more if the prime reason for this suicidal bill is the pressure from those who will be most immediately impacted by a real closing of the border: drug trafficers.
    I wonder if physical threats have been made, or payoffs or promises made by front men for the drug cartels?
     
  5. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Howdy Selfdefense,

    I'm afraid you may have hit the bullseye on this bill proposal. I completely agree with you...

    :?

    West01
     
  6. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    I know it sounds a little black helicopterish, but when tons of reasonble explanations to account for the suicidal behavior fail, you have to start thinking the unthinkable.
     
  7. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    think your kinda off track with drug cartels solely. special interest is better.

    have to understand the bigger picture and planning.
    which is tough because they dont like to advertise everything often they hire
    pr firms for propaganda and spin what they truely want to do.
    dont worry its safe to train to cross the train tracks nevermind the horn and light on coming down the track.

    banks have alot of sway with the government have for years.
    one powerfull name for many years Rockefeller. its not theory by any means its verifiable.

    major plan is nasco corridor who lie about improving I35 corridor blatantly
    trans texas corridor a smaller version of the overall project. major development but
    is it good. someone else is doing some major planning and the government is in there pocket.

    good tool for turning the midwest into a liberal mess like the major coast cities.
    more trade,traffic and carpet baggers.

    drugs,callgirls/guys and money. tools for corruptors.
     
  8. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Everything is speculative at this stage.....but..

    Bigger picture??? Approx. two months ago the Mexican Federale with the help of the FBI made a routine drug safe house bust in Mexico city. They uncover a stash of 200 millions US dollars. Yes...200 Mega in cash...and this only the tip of the iceberg.. You can by a lot of toys with this....and people.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... -headlines

    It doesn't come bigger than this. I wonder if the IRS got its share in that bust??? :wink: :wink:

    Cheers!

    West01
    :D
     
  9. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    There is no doubt that the current problem results from a perfect storm of multiple influences on both sides of the aisle, but when the huge downsides are so evident, one has to wonder if there isn't a capstone factor that cements all the other factors into an immovable juggernaught. Yesterday, an amendment to strip the immediate amnesty from the bill went down in flames in the Senate with 25 Republican votes as well as almost all the Democrats.
     
  10. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    US and Canada Merging economy,government and Militaries.

    US and Canada military will be under NorthCom designation.
    plans are also up for working on Mexico.

    interesting research paper for AirForce grad.

    https://research.maxwell.af.mil/papers/ ... s/Spinetta 2005-005.pdf
    further more the document mentions the CFR Council Foreign Relations.

    pretty interesting stuff. can agree with what some of the document says on security but I absolutely despise with
    how the people of this nation and canada have been removed from the decision making process.

    the author of the pdf document Lawrence J Spinetta was a CFR fellow and is a F15 instructor pilot.

    CRS report
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RS21322.pdf
     
  11. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    Looks like they are going to have to "discuss" some more, as the cloture vote went down in flames last night.
     
  12. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Howdy Mr.A,

    I hate to take away the wind out of your sails here but this CRS report introduce nothing new..... Its just a reshuffling of the chairs. What change is the creation of the US Homeland Security department thus we need to change the letter heads and the logos....My biggest concerned is actually that nothing has changed. To maintain national defense policies remnants of the Cold War is dangerous mistake IMHO.

    Remember "there is a communist behind every trees"..... who his behind the bush this time...I think we will find ourselves. My concerns is that America national security is shifting from a basic law enforcement policies to some kind of a murky politico sectarian inquisition. Even the FBI acknowledge that the drug lords can now sleep better since the pressure is of their back. The government is more concern to chase some dude with a funny name like "Ahmed" or "Abdulah" than some "cute white boy" with a deadly highly virulent form of TB.

    The sadness in all this mess is the lack of recognition (our acknowledgment) by our mighty government is that the terrorists and organize syndicates are the same people...

    Cheers!

    West01

    :D
     
  13. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    no wind from my sail. the CRS report is quite telling imo and fits into a puzzle forming a picture of a pretty large agenda. I was originally more interested in it mentioning the stuff on Canada and Mexico with NorthCom but second look it talks about the Norad move which I overlooked.

    heres a interesting read on The American Empire from 50-60's http://www.mises.org/journals/lar/pdfs/2_1/2_1_7.pdf

    draws good comparisons from Roman Republic to Roman Empire and transition. Founding Fathers warned of such.
    just goes to show history repeats itself.
     
  14. West01

    West01 New Member

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    Howdy Mr.A.

    Sorry for the late response, got some problem with the horses this week... but all is fine now :)

    Thanks for the good reading. Garet Garrett boy thats brings me back. Always like that feisty character. ..."Rosevelt's thorn on his side".

    Good point. The Roman are always an excellent source of historical inspiration. The thing for me although is that there are many different conclusions about their historical fate. For example.....the Roman Republic never had a popular democracy and were ruled by an "Aristocratic" Senate. It was a feudal system in disguise (in toga if I may say :D ). The emperors (but not all of them) were, and I hate to said this, a great think for the Roman Citizens in general. What they lost in rights, they gained in quality of life.....and lasted a couple centuries if I may say...

    What got the Roman at the end and like many other world powers like them was the worse diseases of them all:

    1. Corruption of the ruling class.

    2. Citizens Indifference of their society common goal.

    3. Lost of control of an over-expanded economy.

    The American Republic had a great start. It was founded by visionaries that build a strong society base on individual freedom and liberty. It also benefited of a geographical isolation that protected it against the old worlds abuses like fascism and communist. But times has change. This isolation does not exist anymore and old demons are knocking at our doors....

    This is the test of time for all of us and most important for our children. A strong influence on the world economy is a good thing but IMHO social and economic independence is far more important. If I remember well Mr.A., yourself have brought this point in many other posts. Dependence on foreign energy, capitals and security is simply a "Great Power Decline" waiting to happen.

    We are spending trillion of dollars of our taxes in Iraq. Our energy policies are pathetic at best. China is becoming our banker. Most American politician are shills of special interests. Many Americans are more interested in what is on their Tivo's instead what will be the future of their kids. And finally, our President is on the verge of putting on a Bicorn Hat and probably will start to put his hand behind in his front jacket lapel (so nobody can steal his watch). :wink:

    Anybody shopping for a toga????...:lol:


    Cheers!

    :D

    West01
     
  15. MrApathy

    MrApathy Active Member

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    np most people wouldnt have bothered replying. heck of a post.
     
  16. SELFDEFENSE

    SELFDEFENSE Premium Member

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    Regarding the Roman Empire as a crude approximation to the potential path of the U.S.: true, a number of historians have argued that the Athenian Republic is a better model to try to infer from (although I do not know of a historian of Athens the equivalent of Gibbons).