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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well this is for you 357sig fans. My friend is a fan of the caliber and like a few of us, likes to try new things. He relates his story of the Chicago transit cops using the 357sig cause it will go through the seats of the subway cars.
So he decides to give it a test. He used hardened aluminum (forgot how thick, less then an inch), and proceeds to shoot a 45 at it. He gets a dent in the aluminum. Then he shoots a 40cal and gets a little bigger dent. Lastly, he shoots the 357sig and gets a nice, clean, 9mm sized hole in the aluminum............ 8) As a side note for you shooters, the wwb 357sigs have a crap load of recoil in them probably due to the common powder they use for all calibers. But the self defense loads have their prioritery powder that reduces recoil quite a bit. I didn't think at the time to ask him the loads he used for the test, but I'm guessing all were SD loads and probably Gold Dot 125's for the 357sig...............
 

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Why do they want it to penetrate a seat?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ThaiBoxer said:
Why do they want it to penetrate a seat?
To get the scumbag shooting at them behind it....... 8)
 

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Syntax360 said:
Velocity is a beautiful thing. 8)
Fixed. :wink:
The 9mm & the Sig357 use the same bullets.
If Sectional Density was the primary cause of the penetration, the 9 would have gone through too.
 

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Shooter said:
ThaiBoxer said:
Why do they want it to penetrate a seat?
To get the scumbag shooting at them behind it....... 8)
So they want a high penetrating round for use on a train? What about the inevitable stray, high penetration rounds? In ordinary circumstances I'd think no BFD, but on a train? Not as bad as on an airplane, but sounds like bad thinking....Have there been situations in which a perp is "barricaded" behind a seat, and lack of seat-penetration was the problem?
 

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I wouldnt consider logic as one of the major components for making this choice. My uncle is a Monterey county sherrif, hes heard a ton of these stories. One pd actually bought teflon coated bullets for bg's with armor (which were then stolen from the pd).
 

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BulletBait said:
The 9mm & the Sig357 use the same bullets.
If Sectional Density was the primary cause of the penetration, the 9 would have gone through too.
As 9mm was not discussed initially, I was simply speaking of the relationship between the .357SIG and .40/.45. I'm not convinced the right 9mm load wouldn't do the same thing - I'd like to see the plate hit with a hot 127gr. +P+ or some 147gr. Double Tap in 9mm. No doubt the velocity nod goes to SIG and it is a huge part of the deciding factors that make .357SIG the undisputed champion of the penetration game...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Syntax360 said:
BulletBait said:
The 9mm & the Sig357 use the same bullets.
If Sectional Density was the primary cause of the penetration, the 9 would have gone through too.
As 9mm was not discussed initially, I was simply speaking of the relationship between the .357SIG and .40/.45. I'm not convinced the right 9mm load wouldn't do the same thing - I'd like to see the plate hit with a hot 127gr. +P+ or some 147gr. Double Tap in 9mm. No doubt the velocity nod goes to SIG and it is a huge part of the deciding factors that make .357SIG the undisputed champion of the penetration game...
Good question..........I'll suggest that to my friend and see if he can procure one 9mm ++ bullet and see if it does go through.................. 8)
 

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My only concern is that the only 127gr. +P+ that I know of is the Winchester Ranger JHP - I imagine FMJ is much better suited for the job...

Sounds like a good excuse for Wulf to whip up something wicked... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Syntax360 said:
My only concern is that the only 127gr. +P+ that I know of is the Winchester Ranger JHP - I imagine FMJ is much better suited for the job...

Sounds like a good excuse for Wulf to whip up something wicked... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
wouldn't be valid test since the other bullets were not FMJ and law enforcement wouldn't use them here......I'll say No, it won't be a clean hole.............. :wink:
 

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Shooter said:
wouldn't be valid test since the other bullets were not FMJ and law enforcement wouldn't use them here......I'll say No, it won't be a clean hole.............. :wink:
Ah - I forgot about that part. I wish I had more confidence, but I'm guessing your right. It'd be worth a try, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Spoke to my friend again who did the test and he thought that the 9+p+ might have the "energy" to make the hole but that the 357Sig has much more energy left over after it goes through. He has chronyed 357sig Federal HP's out of his G34 (357sig conversion) at over 1500.... :shock: nice velocity.........its come close to 357mag out of the 6" barrel..........Wulf has done some that have been very hot, and I have a few of his formula sitting here waiting to be chronyed soon. These are 135's ( I think.......been so long since I made them... :oops:).........Frankly I'd rather shoot a 357sig out of a gun built for it and experience moderate recoil, then a 9+p+ out of a pistol made for a 9mm considering an increased recoil. Of course our Steyr's havin be made from a 40cal from the beginning wouldn't have much problem with a hot 9.......as a Sig 229 in 9mm would not either.............
 

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Syntax360 said:
BulletBait said:
The 9mm & the Sig357 use the same bullets.
If Sectional Density was the primary cause of the penetration, the 9 would have gone through too.
As 9mm was not discussed initially, I was simply speaking of the relationship between the .357SIG and .40/.45. I'm not convinced the right 9mm load wouldn't do the same thing - I'd like to see the plate hit with a hot 127gr. +P+ or some 147gr. Double Tap in 9mm. No doubt the velocity nod goes to SIG and it is a huge part of the deciding factors that make .357SIG the undisputed champion of the penetration game...
Miss read the first post. :oops:

If the 9mm is going to be tested, it should be a standard non- +P police load .
The Winchester Ranger 9mm 127gr +P+ SXT is LE only and since the others weren't using +P+ would invalidate a direct comparison.
 

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BulletBait said:
Miss read the first post. :oops:
Ya, that happens... It's all kinda a blur sometimes when your going through every single post that hits SC...

And no it wouldn't - he's testing common self defense loads and the fact that Rangers are marketed as "LE only" means nothing - they are one of the most common defense loads around. There is nothing wrong with putting one of 9mm's best up against the competition... But if you insist, go the other route - try some of Double Tap's stuff.
 
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